Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
@deathpigeon:
Everybody's Entitled, or Privileged*. Then again, in the US, you haven't got anyone actually Entitled, have you?
edited 31st Oct '12 2:53:49 PM by Greenmantle
Keep Rolling OnWorld doesn't end for who? I'm neither working poor nor in ill health, nor a dependent of a gay couple. I'm also not a member of the armed forces or a senior.
Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.@Tomu: Ah, I thought Grizzly was joking, because I don't think anyone honestly believes that Romney will bring about the end of the world. He might trash America, yeah, but that's not the end of it all.
Also, honestly, moving to Canada wasn't entirely facetious of me. I have pre-existing conditions, and the medication is actually fairly expensive, so if Romney does repeal the ACA, I'd be screwed if I stay here.
edited 31st Oct '12 3:00:02 PM by DrunkGirlfriend
"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -DrunkscriblerianYeah, I don't think Romney is going to bring the end of the world.
I'm just trying to keep an open mind here for both, because, yes Romney has made quite a few mistakes, but so has Obama, who hasn't really brought that much change. Although, I could be wrong, but I ain't seeing it.
Wow, so we have two people who I could care less for going for president. I am depressed.
That and uh. If his performance overseas this summer was any indication... I expect the world to become very chilly with dealing with America, which is going to find itself without as many friends or allies, or they'll be a lot more begrudging.
Dragon: Obamacare is a major change. It's not fully in effect yet, but it's basically the first step towards actually making sure the country has healthcare. Likewise, without the stimulus act, the economy would be even worse than it is now.
It's not just that Romney and Obama are "not good enough" it's that Romney would be actively detrimental to the country.
edited 31st Oct '12 3:04:26 PM by TheyCallMeTomu
@L Dragon: Let me go through the seven points I made.
- He has built his entire campaign on lies.
- He has consistently lied in speeches and ads and other things like that, and much more so than
- He has no fixed positions on anything except for a few key issues, such as gay rights and austerity.
- Very recently, the Romney campaign has come out to say that they will not infringe Roe v. Wade. Earlier, he promised that he was against abortion, except in cases of rape or incest. He has also made statements completely against abortion and everything in between. His stance on Iran has ranged wildly from saying we should do a first strike to we should only use diplomacy.
- He is a political opportunist that has used anything he can to increase his power, such as the deaths in Benghazi, even when the people involved doesn't want him to.
- He came out to talk about Benghazi hours after, and has exploited that again and again afterward, including when he condemned statements that were meant to quell the attacks that were said by the diplomats that were killed, conflating the statements to have been said by Obama.
- He is and has a history of being a bully.
- He bullied kids in school. He fought with his state legislature, both Democrats and Republicans. He has suggested people to threaten to fire their employers if Obama is elected. There's probably stuff I'm forgetting.
- He is an entitled white rich person.
- He is rich and supports tax breaks for the rich, even when that would mean tax increases on the middle class and poor.
- He is probably going to promote regressive taxation.
- See the last one.
- He is completely against gay rights.
@Green: ...You can be privileged without being entitled. Basically, privilege is where you have certain things granted to you for reasons that shouldn't give you those things, such as a higher wage for being white or male or lower taxes for being rich, and entitlement is where you believing you deserve said privilege. That's not entirely accurate, but I don't want to go more in depth than that.
edited 31st Oct '12 3:09:17 PM by deathpigeon
In response to Grizzly: And what would you do if Obama wins? And furthermore, turns out to be even more beneficial to the country than he's been so far? Seriously, that's a fucking stupid question. We'll deal with it, one way or another. Especially since I'm fairly sure most of us can't actually afford to move to another country. Or actually want to, considering most of us have our family and other loved ones here. We'll deal with the disappointment and move on with our lives.
Mostly I'm now concerned with the crazies on Texas. Who have progressively turned out to be crazier than I expected.
To be a little less hostile I'd predict not much change from current affairs. Romney could try to get rid of the new healthcare going into effect although he'd have a hard time doing so. Abortion is completely off the table so it's not even worth talking about. Women's rights in general would be untouched as they are still one of the biggest voting blocks. You might see a reinstatement of DADT and some other minor social conservative policies in his first term but unless he secured a good majority in his second he can't really dick around with social policy too much.
Economically he can enact much more change as most people don't understand enough about economics to really argue. I'd expect to see a lot of pro-big business changes.
Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?Romney bought the donations for people to donate back to him
Opportunist doesn't even began to describe Romney.
@ Potatoes:
I'd agree with that. I would also expect relations between those frozen-out Allies to become closer, such as Britain* and Japan.
Keep Rolling OnThere have been some pretty questionable sources brought up in this thread (things that wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they were true but I'd like to see something more reliable corroborating), but for the most part the majority of his campaign points have been pretty trivially easy to show as false using matters of public record. Like, not even debatable speculation or matters of opinion, but factually false or on record saying something contradictory. An unusually large number of these "comments found on the internet", including places I'd normally consider to be so hideously biased as to be ignorable, have actually been citing solid sources in addition to the usual internet rage machine — distressingly, more often than a lot of our broadcast news covering this stuff.
Obama's been doing shady stuff too — enough for me to not vote for him either — but not nearly as much and not nearly so flagrantly. At the very least, his campaign hasn't been "lie nonstop in the small handful of televised events my constituency actually watches, then tell them not to look at factcheckers."
Look, here's an example.
Oh, and during one of his overseas campaign events he successfully managed to piss off most of the world.
edited 31st Oct '12 3:44:21 PM by Pykrete
If Romney wins, I would expect him to find some excuse not to pursue the regressive taxation and public austerity packages he's been advocating out of a sense of self-preservation, because his advisers will suddenly start telling him not to crash the economy so badly that a Democratic victory in 2016 would be assured. I'll probably still have a job and a house, but the "recovery" will likely get even flatter.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"I'm basically with Fighteer-I don't know what Romney'll actually do if he gets the presidency. Indeed, it's likely that congress will pull its head out of its ass. Dems don't generally block efforts that help the president just because he's a Republican after all, so it really depends on whether Republicans in congress will get over their fears of stimulus once it's their guy in office.
HOWEVER, as I said, the whole thing just validates outright lying of the greatest levels. I shudder to think what 2014 and 2016 will bring if Romney wins.

I think what Grizzly is saying is that, we're predicting doom and gloom, and if the world doesn't match our model of reality, we should check our model.
However, I think Grizzly needs to ask what specific aspects of our model of reality he's suspecting will be proven wrong when asking this sort of question.
edited 31st Oct '12 2:52:24 PM by TheyCallMeTomu