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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
No, Rosenbaum was also a homicide. As was Huber. And Grosskreutz was attempted homicide.
Those are the charges levied at Rittenhouse. There are also charges of reckless endangerment against him (also felonies).
Let's also not forget that he went celebrating at a bar with white supremacists while out on bail. This is not someone remorseful about ending lives.
The specific charges aren't manslaughter though.
Edited by M84 on Mar 29th 2021 at 4:57:31 PM
Disgusted, but not surprisedFor a rough idea of the diff between first and second degree murder, say you went out specifically to shoot someone, and shot them. That's first degree.
Now, say someone saw you shooting the first person. you kill them to eliminate a witness. That's Second Degree Murder, essentially "Incidental" Murder, which is very much the case here.
The only diff between the two apart from context is the court can mandate when you're eligible for parole for 2nd Degree. And if a second-degree murderer repeats that action, they go away for life automatically with no chance of parole.
Edited by Pendrake on Mar 29th 2021 at 2:08:25 AM
Semper Fi. Semper Paratus. Vigilo Confido.In any case, it does suck his trial was pushed back, but it's going to be politicized to hell regardless of when it happens.
Actually wondering if it got pushed back so it could be used as political ammo for the 2022 elections. Wouldn't be the first time.
Semper Fi. Semper Paratus. Vigilo Confido.Allow me to present my take:
A man with an assault rifle comes to protests, the police don't stop or attempt to disarm him, the crowd does because they're terrified of a man with a gun, and he murders two of them.
The Republicans side with the Would-Be Spree Shooter rather than the people trying to resist being attacked. This time, the crowd refused to be murdered or intimidated.
Which is why the Right is terrified of Rittenhouse being labeled the monster he is.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Mar 29th 2021 at 4:08:00 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.Another element of gun culture that frustrates me is that in the gun culture *I* grew up in, you don't pull a weapon or brandish it unless you have the intent to use it.
Which is another reason why I gave up on any gun defense because these people act like they're toys when everyone who see use a drawn gun should assume it's meant to be used. It's the attitude many police claim to justify murder.
That doesn't apply to Rittenhouse for some reason.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Mar 29th 2021 at 4:07:05 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.The fact that the notion of portraying Rittenhouse as a victim and not as a white supremacist waste of skin even crossed this thread frankly baffles me.
He went across the states with an illegal gun, shot at the peaceful protest, killed two people and injured a third, then got to walk away with cheers from the blue lives on-site. It doesn't get more "privileged white spree shooter" than this.
I never claimed he was a victim.
And he did not shoot into a fucking crowd. He shot Rosenbaum, who by witness accounts was approaching him alone.
I don't disagree that partying with the Proud Boys is not exactly the smartest idea after you did that shit. But both him and them are getting put away, The Proud Boys due to their role on the 6th, and him for shooting three people.
Edited by Pendrake on Mar 29th 2021 at 4:31:07 AM
Semper Fi. Semper Paratus. Vigilo Confido.The way the right see it was those guy should not mess with someone with a rfile and is there fault for engage him in the first place.
Where this fall is because Kyle when there with rifle, that is fatal weakness of the conservative narrative.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not""Pointed at" and "Actually fired at the crowd" are two completely different things.
While the first can be done with the intent of the second, he did not fire until Rosenbaum was actively separate and attempting to engage, which is why all four shots specifically went into him. I am not excusing anyone. Just pointing out that Kyle was not a deranged Psychopath spraying a machine gun into a crowd. He was fully in control of what happened, which actually makes it worse for him, because he was in complete control of his faculties and actually thought putting four rounds into a guy who tossed a plastic bag at him and was likely being provocative (Rosenbaum was known for doing this to police from other protests) was a good idea.
It was not, and he deserves to pay for that decision for the rest of his life. As he probably also likely will for partying with those Proud Boys given their role on the Sixth.
Edited by Pendrake on Mar 29th 2021 at 4:42:39 AM
Semper Fi. Semper Paratus. Vigilo Confido.Context, M84.
Clearly meant the same thing in the post that was made.
There are leftists who believe guns period just just be outright banned who're using this. That's a statistical impossibility in the world we live in. And people getting them illegally will happen regardless, as Kyle showed.
As I've said before, I'm a centrist. I'm trying to analyze this from both sides.
I don't disagree.
There's just also a lot of "Guns bad, ban all guns!" people there too, who think just having one makes you evil. Fact is, guns on their own don't kill people. People do. And will regardless of whether guns are around or not. Improvised Weapon is a trope for a reason, after all.
Edited by Pendrake on Mar 29th 2021 at 4:50:07 AM
Semper Fi. Semper Paratus. Vigilo Confido.Pointing a rifle at a crowd of people means you have full intent to shoot a crowd of people. That's rule goddamn one of gun safety, which I know is a rare understanding to see among people who worship the things, but it's a simple enough concept.
Edited by RedSavant on Mar 29th 2021 at 4:45:35 AM
It's been fun.Yes, he died attempting to protect others and is a hero.
Because he attempted to disarm a man who was threatening a crowd of innocents.
Where is the GOP, "The only thing to stop a bad man with a gun is a good man with a gun?" narrative?
Again, I feel like a moron for ever buying it as a narrative because this is basic gun safety and something drilled into me every time I handled one. Apparently that just gets thrown out the window when its convenient.
A person brandishing a gun is to be assumed to be fully intent to use it.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Mar 29th 2021 at 4:51:09 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.Kid*
17 year old. Teenager.
And one of the three guys shot did have a gun. Which is probably why they didn't pursue that route, because it would be turned around on them due to him.
Edited by Pendrake on Mar 29th 2021 at 4:52:13 AM
Semper Fi. Semper Paratus. Vigilo Confido.Christ, we're on this again? You bring a gun to a crowd and point it at people. You are now an armed assailant and they are completely justified in disarming you and pounding you into the pavement. Pendrake, don't pretend you'd have the same attitude if this guy were not white.
I don't care if he's 17. That means he shouldn't have a fucking gun.
If we're so concerned about who committed felonies, pointing a gun at someone is assault with a deadly weapon. Full stop, go immediately to jail, do not pass Go.
Edited by Fighteer on Mar 29th 2021 at 7:54:16 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"I knew at 17 that murder was wrong.
Like I said, I think of him as the same as the Columbine shooters. I never thought I'd go back to my belief that America is in a spiritual war of Good Vs. Evil from my The Fundamentalist days but the defense of people like him by the Right puts me in that place.
There's no misunderstanding here. He is evil and so are his supporters as are the Right in America with their desire to support intimidation of those who were there to protest police brutality.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Mar 29th 2021 at 4:53:36 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters."A person brandishing a gun is to be assumed to be fully intent to use it. "
I think this is the issue here: the right dont see kyle trying to start a fight, they saw him ready for one that the left and protester clearly started by protesting what in their eyes was a clear case of justifying shooting.
there is a level of "dont tread on me" here.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"Fight, I judge people on a per-case basis,and my family is actually extremely multi-national.
I'd have a problem with what happened on all fronts that night regardless of ethnicity, religion, gender, sexuality, etc.
And I'm NOT arguing that he's innocent. He's purely fucking guilty, and he should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Because he broke it and there's a massive pile of witnesses. If he wasn't white, or male, or whatever, the charge remains the same in my eyes. I know African-Americans and so on are treated differently. The cousins I live closest to are Black. Their dad is a Nigerian Muslim. I have other cousins who're Israeli Jews who've had similar shit happen to them, and so on.
Kyle is guilty of murder, and he should be punished for it. Full stop.
Edited by Pendrake on Mar 29th 2021 at 4:59:18 AM
Semper Fi. Semper Paratus. Vigilo Confido.

Aggravated Manslaughter is far more likely in the case of Rosenbaum.
Huber, however, I would count that as murder. And Revenge.
The only shot that's sort of possibly self-defense is Grosskreutz, as he had a handgun. and even then, as far as I've been able to tell through various reports, he wasn't "Brandishing" it like Rittenhouse's lawyers claim.
My point with the Monster part is you don't label someone that for their first offense unless it was ridiculously heinous.
What happened that night is above all just stupidity on the part of all parties involved. If Kyle decides to remain on that path, I'll be fine with the moniker being used, but he's still a 17-year old kid in a country that hasn't been this divided since the Civil War.
The most likely charge, as far as I can tell, is probably going to be Murder in the Second Degree. As Manslaughter tends to be for accidentally causing someone's death. 1st Degree is planned and carried out with a specific target in mind. Which leaves us with Second Degree Murder. Which still carries a life sentence.
Edited by Pendrake on Mar 29th 2021 at 2:01:14 AM
Semper Fi. Semper Paratus. Vigilo Confido.