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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Yes, and I'm asking you for the links to those records and recordings and/or links to reputable news sites that reference them.
That would depend which you deem credible.
I'll admit I'm unfamiliar for the most part with US news sources unless they're blatant horrible, like Newsmax or OANN.
And records or not, they still attacked first, and with the intent of causing harm, not "disarm." They did beat on him for nearly a half-minute. If they'd actually been going for a disarm, the moment Kyle was on the ground, they could have pinned him and worked the rifle out of his hands. They did not.
And pretty much, yeah. He's an idiot, and he'll pay for it for the rest of his life, and he deserves to.
Trump, on the other hand, qualifies as a Monster. Kyle harmed and/or killed three people.
Trump's done it to millions for his own personal gain. And basically sees Hitler as a role model.
Edited by Pendrake on Mar 29th 2021 at 12:16:18 PM
Semper Fi. Semper Paratus. Vigilo Confido.Could someone please explain to me what the point of contention that is being argued here actually is? I looked over the recent pages and I'm struggling a bit to discern any such point.
Er, 'records or not' is not a terribly reassuring phrase when the intent is to convince people that this event actually happened.
So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my TumblrI can post every Cell Camera's clips that were trained on the incident.
They very clearly show Huber taking a running start to brain Rittenhouse with his skateboard, after him and the other two had been yelling "Get Him!" to people around them, and then repeatedly using said skateboard to hit Kyle after he's on the ground while other two kicked him.
Edited by Pendrake on Mar 29th 2021 at 12:25:58 PM
Semper Fi. Semper Paratus. Vigilo Confido.Well I for one would like confirmation that these men did in face have criminal records, and that these things:
He'd already been disabled. They were trying to KILL him.
actually happened as described.
@Pendrake, any major US news source will do. ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, NPR, AP News, Reuters, USA Today, Washington Post, NY Times.
I'll see what I can do.
I will say though, just by the sheer amount of video evidence, that Kyle was attacked first.
And THAT many people having their videos doctored is pretty damn unlikely. Not impossible. But highly improbable.
Semper Fi. Semper Paratus. Vigilo Confido.![]()
Should be noted that he had already shot and killed Joseph Rosenbaum by that point. The others started chasing and beating him afterwards. In the ensuing struggles he then shot and killed Anthony Huber, followed by shooting Gaige Grosskreutz - Gaige Grosskreutz survived but he lost his bicep.
He came across state lines, got an assault rifle, and went to the protests. If absolutely nothing else, he was there to shoot people if he got the chance - and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he made sure he got the chance.
Rittenhouse wasn't there to support the protests, he was there to support the police. Bringing along a gun and live ammo may have been a stupid decision made by a 17-year-old, but let's not pretend he wasn't there for a specific reason.
It's been fun.Hrm.
That makes even less sense as for why they didn't bother to disarm him, as there WAS plenty of time and ability to have done so.
As I've said before, I have no problem with Kyle being punished for what he did. I have a problem with people trying to lionize his victims as "Saintly Heroes."
And I'm not excusing him. He clearly was there with the intent to cause harm. again, my problem is people trying to claim Huber was some kind of hero. He repeatedly did his best to bash Kyle's skull open with his skateboard. If he was going for a disarm rather than an anger-fueled beating, he would have dropped the skateboard the moment Kyle was on the ground, and tried to wrestle the weapon out of Kyle's hands with the help of Gaige. They did not.
Edited by Pendrake on Mar 29th 2021 at 12:55:07 PM
Semper Fi. Semper Paratus. Vigilo Confido.https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/09/11/rittenhouse-victims-records/
Here it is from snope:
Considering that evidence, the claim that Rosenbaum at one point was convicted of sexually abusing at least one child before his death was true.
Next, we analyzed criminal records involving Huber, and determined it also accurate to state he was charged with domestic abuse. We uncovered a Kenosha County criminal complaint that outlined his first serious run-in with law enforcement, in December 2012. And per that complaint, Huber, who was 18 years old at the time, threatened his brother and grandmother at their home with a knife, choked the brother, and demanded that they follow his orders. The complaint said the brother wanted to take Huber to a hospital, apparently for emergency mental health help, but Huber resisted. In the end, he was charged with strangulation and suffocation and false imprisonment, both of which are felony crimes.
Also false was the assertion that all three of the teenager’s victims were felons. Grosskreutz had not committed a felony crime, our analysis of court records showed.
He was, however, found guilty in 2016 of breaking Wisconsin’s law governing the use of dangerous weapons — a misdemeanor offense — per Milwaukee County court records. He had apparently gone somewhere “armed while intoxicated,” though the court records did not elaborate on what exactly had happened. Snopes requested a copy of the probable cause statement from county records administrators, but we have not yet obtained it.
Additionally, Grosskreutz at various points received tickets for minor offenses including disobeying police officers and making loud noises, the court records showed. However, no evidence showed he had indeed committed burglary, like supporters of the alleged killer claimed, though he had been arrested on suspicion of the crime in 2012. The felony charge was later dismissed, per Wisconsin Department of Justice’s criminal data.
So whatever we like or not, that part are kinda sorta true, now whatever tha matter is another thing enterely.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"Rittenhouse was looking for a fight, breaking laws beforehand AND he defended his life later on.
Both of these things can be true.
Edited by Forenperser on Mar 29th 2021 at 10:05:09 AM
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian![]()
Pretty much, his defense his life he already eager show up, is clear to me kyle never really expect to shoot the damn thing, just to be there.
which it really tell you a lot.
unfortunally it does, is just how it is this days or how it probablaby alwasy was.
And? It's not like Rittenhouse had a printout of people who had committed felonies in Arizona and matched their faces, nor are felonies subject to the death penalty, nor is a 17-year-old with an assault rifle empowered to execute said penalties. No one's saying they were saintly victims. At best, Rittenhouse took a loaded weapon to gawk at the protests he had no reason to be at, was attacked, panicked, and shot people; at worst, he went there fully intending to do so, successfully provoked people, and then murdered them.
Edited by RedSavant on Mar 29th 2021 at 12:59:28 PM
It's been fun.Which makes their actions look like an attempt at vigilante justice. That’s wrong, but considering the likelihood of Rittenhouse walking free it’s understandable.
That’s a disturbing statement, but what’s even more disturbing for me is the fact that it’s got a chance of being validated. As Rittenhouse could well end up walking free and killing again. At which point, the loss of life would have been smaller if they had managed to kill him there and then.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran![]()
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Not arguing any of that.
I guess my roundabout point is what happened that night was royally fucked up on a somewhat ridiculous number of levels.
And it's going to be politicized the shit out of likely until the next time something like it happens, and then they'll move on to that case.
My real issue at the beginning here was people claiming Kyle is a monster. while he might have been/still is on the path to becoming one, he's undeserving of the moniker just yet.
For me, you gotta do a bit more than shoot three people to gain that, either by being a sadistic sick fuck (like my ex-brother-in-law), or have continuously basically made a career out of doing horrible things to people (Trump, Hitler, Goebbels, Dahmer, Manson, most of whom do count for the first, natch).
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Slippery Slope there. They were entirely capable of disarming him based on visual evidence, they chose not to. Huber paid for that mistake with his life, Grosskreutz, his bicep. They weren't after justice. They were after revenge. Which is understandable under the circumstances, but still a mistake that led to both of them being shot.
Basic Self-Defense teachings are "disable assailant, disarm assailant, call cops." They only did the first, and Rittenhouse recovered and was still armed.
Edited by Pendrake on Mar 29th 2021 at 1:16:53 AM
Semper Fi. Semper Paratus. Vigilo Confido.I will said a problem with this is there isa tendecy of weight this not in law term but in morality terms, when people try to bring the crminal past, what they want to said is "if he kill three scum, them he did good, is not what matter?"
is a very personal, basic and yeah, wrong way to see justice but it show us on what leve US see justice.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"Rittenhouse fired into a crowd and killed a person, and the person who was shot to death was in the process of protesting against police brutality. What were they supposed to do, smack him on the wrist and then call the nice cops to come arrest him?
This is a legitimate question here. The protests were and are predicated on the fact that you can't trust the police to protect the people they're supposed to protect, and that they have in the past allowed white shooters like Rittenhouse to walk free - like they did that night.
It's been fun.And after disarming him how would they stop him killing again? They’d have to hand him over to the police and the rest of the American justice system.
Now I agree that that’s what should have happened, but I can also understand how they might have felt that that would just result in him being set free to kill again. Depending on future events that might even turn out to be true.
Edit to edit:
That only works if you live in a place where the police will arrest a mass-shooter instead of letting him walk free and giving him a thumbs up.
Edited by Silasw on Mar 29th 2021 at 9:22:18 AM
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranOn a side note, should watch Falcon and Winter Soldier. Actually a lot of good real life topics they're tackling that really need to be, and they're only two episodes into the series.
I don't disagree, but justifying killing someone on the chance they'll kill someone again isn't exactly a good path to start walking down.
Putting a round through a serial killer's head, sure. But we start going down the path of justifying killing like that, we end up with Minority Report bullshit, where you get arrested/killed for shit you MIGHT do.
Edited by Pendrake on Mar 29th 2021 at 1:24:37 AM
Semper Fi. Semper Paratus. Vigilo Confido.Or fired into a crowd at all.
Witness accounts do claim Rosenbaum was shot while trying to disarm Rittenhouse, which means he wasn't standing in a crowd. He was actively split off and moving towards him.
That doesn't justify Kyle putting four rounds in him, but Kyle wasn't laughing maniacally and spraying bullets in every direction. The fact they all hit Rosenbaum proves that Kyle's aim was very much focused specifically on him. Bear in mind we're talking about a Semi-auto rifle here. Not one where you just pull the trigger and bullets fly everywhere. Four rounds from a semi-auto mean four trigger pulls, which means Kyle had him lined up in his sights, and actively was targetting him.
Which very much shoots the whole "Self-Defense" Defense to hell. Literally.
I've also seen a few clips of Rosenbaum. He actually had a habit of daring cops to shoot him at protests and was kind of a jerkass. That doesn't mean he deserved to die, but I think we can reasonably assume something similar could have happened that night.
Edited by Pendrake on Mar 29th 2021 at 1:45:38 AM
Semper Fi. Semper Paratus. Vigilo Confido.
