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Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#35801: Oct 29th 2012 at 12:15:13 AM

Oh, don't get too comfortable with Roe v. Wade. I know it's been around for a while, but it is a fact that if Romney wins, he will appoint a Supreme Court Justice to overturn it.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#35802: Oct 29th 2012 at 12:20:32 AM

I doubt he's going to try and run for President again, but I guess we'll see in four years. That was a pretty bad.... whatever that was that caused him to drop out of the running.

deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#35803: Oct 29th 2012 at 12:22:47 AM

@Besty: I don't see why we shouldn't just make an "American Politics" thread. I mean, we have a "British Politics" and a "Canadian Politics" thread already.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#35804: Oct 29th 2012 at 12:34:10 AM

Like I said, I think we should give it a two to four week rest after the election.

And that means after the inevitable recount :P

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#35805: Oct 29th 2012 at 1:10:45 AM

Kennedy, Bader-Ginsberg and Bryor are all in their 70s.

All are for Roe v. Wade. If any of those retire, Romney could easily replace them with a conservative. Ergo, goodbye Roe v. Wade.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#35806: Oct 29th 2012 at 1:19:23 AM

The question is, will they?

"You can reply to this Message!"
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#35807: Oct 29th 2012 at 1:22:14 AM

I doubt they will if Romney gets elected.

They might die, though.

edited 29th Oct '12 1:22:31 AM by deathpigeon

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#35808: Oct 29th 2012 at 1:39:20 AM

Yes, Romney will overturn it with a couple more conservative justices. Obama could appoint more liberal justices if he gets re-elected.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#35809: Oct 29th 2012 at 2:41:48 AM

> Greyson

BTW, it's Alan Grayson.

Trey Greyson is a Republican Kentucky State Senator (majority leader I think). Once ran for Senate. Got beat in the primary by Rand Paul.

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#35810: Oct 29th 2012 at 6:59:48 AM

Okay, Grayson is a lying, misleading asshole. However, you have to take the whole thing into perspective, for as Serocco points out:

Grayson lied.

Meanwhile, Webster sponsored SB 2400 in the Florida Senate requiring that all women planning to undergo an abortion receive an invasive vaginal ultrasound. It didn't pass the Florida Senate at the time, but it became state law eventually.

Grayson was punished electorally for his lie rather than going with what would have been the smarter move of quoting Webster in full while text describing his voting record runs over the screen, then ending on a "You can talk the talk, Mr. Webster. Can you walk the walk?" note. Sometimes I think I would do a much better job of advertising progressive Democrat objectives than their campaign advisors.

Also, regarding:

In doing so, he not only blatantly falsified his opponents views but also perpetuated the same vile lie of conservative Christian misogyny that the liberal movement continues to allow and even encourage within its ranks.
I won't defend Grayson's deception, though I still support his policies. That said, I have been waiting to have this conversation in a different thread since page 1120.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#35811: Oct 29th 2012 at 7:07:12 AM

[up]

This.

It might not be intentional misogyny, but conservative christianity to liberals, does seem to have a blatant misogynist streak.

#35812: Oct 29th 2012 at 7:08:03 AM

[up][up] I've been trying to figure out how I can open the subject without things going down the tubes very quickly.

[up] So blatant that the only way they can exploit it is to lie and invent quotes?

Rape culture is prevalent in our culture. It may even be more prevalent among some people who vote republican, although I haven't seen a solid argument for it. However, I have seen little to no support for the idea that conservative Christianity is a source of support for it. My experience has been quite the opposite. Perhaps my sample is limited, but the frequency with which I discover that supposed examples are lies invented by people with anti-christian agendas is steadily eroding my ability to believe that.

edited 29th Oct '12 7:13:16 AM by EdwardsGrizzly

<><
DrTentacles Cephalopod Lothario from Land of the Deep Ones Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Cephalopod Lothario
#35813: Oct 29th 2012 at 7:23:15 AM

[up]

Although I disagree with you on a lot of issues, Grizzly, in this case, I'm totally on your side. As a Democrat, it's hypocritical to call out Republicans for lies, and inflammatory statements, then argue that when "our" side does it, it's for a good cause. No matter who's spewing the bile and disinformation, all it does is polarize politics, encourage an "Us vs Them" mentality, and further the degeneration of the American political system.

vanthebaron Mystical Monkey Master from Carlyle, Il Since: Sep, 2010
Mystical Monkey Master
#35814: Oct 29th 2012 at 7:24:07 AM

@tao: of course the radicals are representative of the GOP as a whole. If the people didn't agree with what they say, they wouldn't be elected.

edited 29th Oct '12 7:25:59 AM by vanthebaron

Untitled Power Rangers Story
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#35815: Oct 29th 2012 at 7:25:53 AM

[up][up]

Honetsly, I think the system is already completedly degenerated and unsalvageable. Whats the point to compromise when the other side's views of what is morally right and proper is so alien to you that it makes you want to vomit to even consider it?

Do think Grayson's tactics are moral? No. But then. I don't see the right condemning their side for doing the same thing on a near-constant basis. Hell. I heard 5+ political commercials this morning during a 30 minute drive all using the lie that "Missouri needs more jobs, not moar taxes"

edited 29th Oct '12 7:27:19 AM by Midgetsnowman

#35816: Oct 29th 2012 at 7:50:01 AM

That attitude quite frankly disgusts me, and furthermore is factually unsound, considering that virtually all conservatives, including Todd Akin himself, spoke out against and apologized for his ignorant statements. Grayson, on the other hand, was not ignorant but deliberately malicious, and adamantly defended his lies even when confronted on national tv with the full context of them.

Compare this with this, and tell me that Grayson is just like republicans.

EDIT: fixed links, the boards hate youtube.

edited 29th Oct '12 7:54:11 AM by EdwardsGrizzly

<><
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#35817: Oct 29th 2012 at 7:58:45 AM

That attitude quite frankly disgusts me, and furthermore is factually unsound, considering that virtually all conservatives, including Todd Akin himself, spoke out against and apologized for his ignorant statements.

And then when it was made evident Akin wouldn't pull himself out of the race, the GOP politicians backpedaled and started going "Akin, what a swell guy. Missouri should feel lucky to have such a wonderful fellow."

vanthebaron Mystical Monkey Master from Carlyle, Il Since: Sep, 2010
Mystical Monkey Master
#35818: Oct 29th 2012 at 7:59:57 AM

Romney campaign “hindering” and “impeding” Hurricane Sandy relief

^EXACTLY. If you support the candidate you are saying you support what he says he will do. That makes conservative voters malicious in my eyes.

V if they vote for Akin, the support the rape comment and are their for subhuman in my eye. if you vote for and candidate that supports Akin, same thing.

edited 29th Oct '12 8:04:23 AM by vanthebaron

Untitled Power Rangers Story
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#35819: Oct 29th 2012 at 8:01:05 AM

[up][up][up]

Akin barely backpedaled at all. His apology was so halfhearted it mihght as well have not even happened,

. And he's still going to win because Missouri voters care more about demonizing Claire Mc Caskill (who's barely liberal to begin with) and trumpeting idiotic taglines like "job creators" to bother with noticing he said anything about rape. After all, Missouri is a red state in all but name anymore.

edited 29th Oct '12 8:01:48 AM by Midgetsnowman

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#35820: Oct 29th 2012 at 8:04:39 AM

@tao: of course the radicals are representative of the GOP as a whole. If the people didn't agree with what they say, they wouldn't be elected.
Actually, we may have to back off on that if it turns out that Romney did steal the nomination from Santorum. There is also the possibility that people are turned off by campaigning like Grayson's and vote Republican to spite such Democrats. It's unfortunate, as it strikes me as cutting off your nose to spite your face, but it doubtless happens.
That attitude quite frankly disgusts me, and furthermore is factually unsound, considering that virtually all conservatives, including Todd Akin himself, spoke out against and apologized for his ignorant statements. Grayson, on the other hand, was not ignorant but deliberately malicious, and adamantly defended his lies even when confronted on national tv with the full context of them.

Compare this with this, and tell me that Grayson is just like republicans.

Yeah, Grayson doubled down on a deliberate misrepresentation, and that's reprehensible.

Akin gave a classic not-pology - he "misspoke", and his argument was "ill-conceived", and the big error was in the "words he said". The implication is that if he'd worded the same position in nicer language so more people accepted it, then all would be right. He changed the topic to discuss stronger punishment for rapists, as though anyone was worried about being soft on convicted rapists (though it would not surprise me if he used "soft on crime" accusations at other points in his campaign).

You're right, Grayson isn't just like Republicans. They're MUCH better at PR. He should be taking notes.

I've been trying to figure out how I can open the subject without things going down the tubes very quickly.
'Tactics Used To Appeal To American Woman Voters' is a safe title. The wording of the OP could be tricky. Alternatively, if you want to emphasize something different, you can title it 'Misrepresentation of Conservative Christian Politics'.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
#35821: Oct 29th 2012 at 8:05:07 AM

@Potatoes:

Because he himself apologized and rejected his ignorant statements, demonstrating not only a capacity to absorb facts but a level of humility which is a good trait for politicians to have. Grayson, on the other hand, wouldn't even "clarify" his ad, much less apologize for it. Even in the face of a female MSNBC reporter calling him a liar to his face and reading the full text of Webster's speech, he insisted that his ad did not take Webster out of context.

Seriously, watch the two videos I linked to. One man made a foolish error, was showed his mistake, and apologized, while the other, when confronted with his lies, tried to pull the same intimidation on the female anchor that he tried on his voters (she obviously didn't buy it, but you can see that she was miffed). He's a scumbag, and I don't call people scumbags lightly.

edited 29th Oct '12 8:06:59 AM by EdwardsGrizzly

<><
Morven Nemesis from Seattle, WA, USA Since: Jan, 2001
Nemesis
#35822: Oct 29th 2012 at 8:07:33 AM

I do think the recent trend of clipping speeches to make it appear that a candidate said something they actually didn't is absolutely reprehensible, no matter who does it.

I have the impression, though, that this is one of the few times a Democrat has been caught doing it. Republicans have been doing it for a while — I know they've done it to Obama's speeches, for instance. Has it actually been something that mostly Republicans have done, or is this just a function of my mostly following Democrat-leaning media?

A brighter future for a darker age.
vanthebaron Mystical Monkey Master from Carlyle, Il Since: Sep, 2010
Mystical Monkey Master
#35823: Oct 29th 2012 at 8:08:48 AM

Griz, Akin supported all of Paul Ryan's shit in Congress. The apology was bullshit, the evidence is in his vetoing record.

Untitled Power Rangers Story
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#35824: Oct 29th 2012 at 8:10:54 AM

[up][up]

Soundbites? Common in British Politics since Tony Blair: major speeches (even during Prime Ministers Questions) are designed to highlight the parts that will appear on the TV News that Evening...

Keep Rolling On
Morven Nemesis from Seattle, WA, USA Since: Jan, 2001
Nemesis
#35825: Oct 29th 2012 at 8:12:49 AM

@Greenmantle: no, the deliberate slicing of a part of a candidate's speech in order to imply a different meaning than they plainly used, given any context whatsoever. For example, if a candidate says "Some people think X, but I strongly disagree with them", and their opposition simply runs the clip of whatever X is.

A brighter future for a darker age.

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