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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#35226: Oct 25th 2012 at 11:19:06 AM

We've been over this. Being an American citizen does not make you immune to combat action if you are aiding and abetting an enemy in wartime. Quite frankly, I don't give a crap.

edited 25th Oct '12 11:19:15 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
theweirdKiddokun What a Wonderful World! from Last Place in the Race Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
What a Wonderful World!
#35227: Oct 25th 2012 at 11:19:58 AM

Then he should of just got arrested when the FBI first came after him. He had his chance and he wasted it.

The Reaper Games starts anew.
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#35228: Oct 25th 2012 at 11:20:01 AM

Right to fair trial. American justice system. Anwar, American citizen. Did not aid enemy. Only was propagandist. Had right to spout propaganda, as he was an American citizen with the same First Amendment rights as I.

Therefore, right to trial. Even if he escaped, you don't just Rage Quit by dropping a drone on his head.

edited 25th Oct '12 11:22:32 AM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#35229: Oct 25th 2012 at 11:21:24 AM

I sympathize, but I think you have to deal with reality at a certain point. Making it prohibitively difficult for you to be apprehended should not be constituted as a means of escaping justice.

theweirdKiddokun What a Wonderful World! from Last Place in the Race Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
What a Wonderful World!
#35230: Oct 25th 2012 at 11:22:44 AM

[up][up]He escaped since 05 and was hiding with Al-Qaeda.

The Reaper Games starts anew.
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#35231: Oct 25th 2012 at 11:26:38 AM

The reality is that his death prompted his son to try to find out what happened to him. He was in the middle of dinner with his cousin, and he was about to return home, until a drone killed him and everyone that was having dinner at the house.

In fact, they covered up Abdulrahman's identity and lied about his involvement with Al-Qaeda (he's not involved at all, but that didn't stop them from lying anyway).

When actually questioned by it, Obama campaign senior adviser Robert Gibbs basically said "His father was irresponsible". Even though Anwar died two weeks before Abdulrahman. (You can hear the quote at the 4:47 mark).

edited 25th Oct '12 11:29:02 AM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
theweirdKiddokun What a Wonderful World! from Last Place in the Race Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
What a Wonderful World!
#35232: Oct 25th 2012 at 11:31:37 AM

That is why I said:

As for his son that was upsetting, but I seen enough in history to know where that was going.

edited 25th Oct '12 11:32:35 AM by theweirdKiddokun

The Reaper Games starts anew.
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#35233: Oct 25th 2012 at 11:31:57 AM

I guess it's not a sticking issue with me. Call me a cruel monster.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#35234: Oct 25th 2012 at 11:36:15 AM

[up] That's one example of Obama abusing his privilege of targeted killings. The lack of action, outrage or care about drone strikes, coupled with people flat-out defending the use of drone strikes... well, it almost makes me want Romney to win, because he'll abuse it to all-hell and then people will care.

"Would I mind if you died in a drone strike? No. Would I mind it because that means I can get killed too? Yes."

edited 25th Oct '12 11:37:41 AM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#35235: Oct 25th 2012 at 11:36:54 AM

My point in bringing up Libya is I don't see a big difference between that situation and the drone strikes. In both cases, we have a country (or countries) undergoing internal military conflict; the United States chooses to support a certain side, and aids them by providing a kind of aerial firepower they can't produce themselves. The biggest difference seems to be that the Libyan revolutionaries publically asked for American help, while the countries receiving drone strikes publically denounce America's actions while privately supporting them.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#35236: Oct 25th 2012 at 11:38:20 AM

[up]Who in their right mind would privately support dying?

edited 25th Oct '12 11:39:59 AM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
theweirdKiddokun What a Wonderful World! from Last Place in the Race Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
What a Wonderful World!
#35237: Oct 25th 2012 at 11:42:45 AM

Pakistan is really corrupted. Half of it supports what America is doing and half doesn't and supports the Taliban.

The Reaper Games starts anew.
Enkufka Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ from Bay of White fish Since: Dec, 2009
Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ
#35238: Oct 25th 2012 at 11:42:56 AM

Colbert's breakdown of the bullshit "questions" being asked about the Benghazi attack.

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#35239: Oct 25th 2012 at 11:48:44 AM

[up][up][up] Pakistan's government seems to support the drone strikes; for a while they even let American drones be launched from a Pakistani air base. And even from the regions most affected by the drones, I've seen conflicting reports about whether the average, non-Taliban/Al Quaeda aligned civilian views the drones with fear or as something liberating them from militant control.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#35240: Oct 25th 2012 at 11:57:16 AM

Serocco, at the point where you commit treason by aiding or abetting a declared enemy of the United States, you give up your right to the protections of citizenship. This may not match the law of the land, but it is my opinion. The government should attempt to apprehend you if possible and treat you with the rights afforded to a prisoner of war, but if that is not possible and killing you is the most expedient option, that's fine. You flee to a warzone as a declared supporter of a hostile enemy at your own risk.

edited 25th Oct '12 11:58:04 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#35241: Oct 25th 2012 at 12:04:41 PM

It's like saying you're not okay with snipers in hostage situations, what with SWAT teams and all. We're talking about situations where sending men in on the ground is likely to fail, and likely to get people killed.

Maybe you can find this as some huge moral imposition, but stop acting so indignant about it. It's off-putting, and your position isn't so obviously sound as you make it out to be.

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#35242: Oct 25th 2012 at 12:04:48 PM

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/25/oct-24-in-polls-romneys-momentum-seems-to-have-stopped/

On an unrelated note, Nate Silver notes that the newest polls out show a halt in Romney's polling surge, which several political scientists I believe predicted would happen, and that based on patterns, polls should start returning closer to their pre-debate levels.

HilarityEnsues Since: Sep, 2009
#35243: Oct 25th 2012 at 12:14:49 PM

I'm not against drones per say, but the way they're being used right now is reckless and I think it will inevitably have serious consequences that outweigh any practical benefits.

I don't think that ending the military is a realistic goal, nor do I have many grievances about how Bin Laden didn't get a trial. But it doesn't seem any less shortsighted to believe that bombing weddings and funerals is a good idea if we want to minimize the number of enemies we make.

edited 25th Oct '12 12:26:09 PM by HilarityEnsues

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#35244: Oct 25th 2012 at 12:21:49 PM

Well, THAT'S a much better argument.

GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#35245: Oct 25th 2012 at 12:24:23 PM

> the way they're being used right now is wreckless

No, I know of at least one drone that's crashed.

deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#35246: Oct 25th 2012 at 12:27:54 PM

Seriously, we have so many enemies today that we wouldn't have if we didn't take it upon ourselves to be World Police and intervene in foreign countries where we are not wanted at the drop of a hat. I'm not saying we should isolate ourselves and not do stuff with other countries, but there are better ways to not do that than to invade a bunch of countries or send out the drones.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#35247: Oct 25th 2012 at 12:58:15 PM

Well, if that's your interest, then you will be glad to know that Obama has dramatically improved our standing with most nations around the world compared to George W. Bush, and he enjoys overwhelming support among non-Americans, something like 50% compared to 6% for Romney.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
#35248: Oct 25th 2012 at 1:00:10 PM

Thus most if not all the people targeted by drone strikes have been people most of you here are totally fine with killing. In most cases you are probably quite justified in those feelings. That doesn't change the fact that we have a legal system with protections for the accused, that should not be trifled with. Death sentences should not subject to the whims of popular opinion or of a single individual elected by popular opinion, not matter how much we may agree with popular opinion or trust the individual at the moment.

<><
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#35250: Oct 25th 2012 at 1:05:10 PM

[up][up]

That may be True, Grizzly. But how would not voting Obama change that? Romney has no issues with Drone Strikes and neither does the republican party.


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