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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#35201: Oct 25th 2012 at 10:28:06 AM

The president IS the Commander in Chief though.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#35202: Oct 25th 2012 at 10:33:24 AM

Drone strikes are used indiscriminately. It's not a smarter, better way to wage war.

And as the commander in chief, the President personally authorizes every single drone strike. Whether it's Obama (which he is), or Romney.

edited 25th Oct '12 10:35:22 AM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#35203: Oct 25th 2012 at 10:34:56 AM

Unless you're suggesting that the U.S. government just picks random targets in certain countries to hit with missiles, I don't think "indiscriminately" means what you think it means.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#35204: Oct 25th 2012 at 10:35:41 AM

[up] Signature strikes = attack the same place again when bystanders try to help those injured or check on the dead.

Personality strikes = attack people we think, might be involved with terrorist corps.

edited 25th Oct '12 10:36:40 AM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#35205: Oct 25th 2012 at 10:36:34 AM

Since you're saying that's exactly what they're doing, explain why you agree with the word "random" in that sentence.

Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#35206: Oct 25th 2012 at 10:40:46 AM

As I see it, for us (as Americans), drone strikes are a good thing. Fighting "fair" when you don't have to is just stupid. And I'm fairly sure that a lot of why they've expanded under Obama has more to do with advances in drone technology than anything else. If drones were as advanced in 2004 as they are now, do you really think that Bush wouldn't be carrying out at least as many?

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#35207: Oct 25th 2012 at 10:45:14 AM

What if (hypothetically speaking) China or Russia decide to use drones to attack Americans?

edited 25th Oct '12 10:46:37 AM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#35208: Oct 25th 2012 at 10:50:03 AM

It'd kind of suck to be us, but drones don't work very well if you don't already have air superiority, which they'd have a hell of a time taking from the USAF, which otherwise can just knock down drones.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#35209: Oct 25th 2012 at 10:51:44 AM

War is not about fighting fairly or unfairly. It's always been about - say it with me - the money. More drone strikes equal more money for defense contractors, who ultimately run the military.

That's why it's so prevalent. That's why it's escalating. That's why Obama's doing it. That's because the defense contractors want to make more money off of anything related to war.

I'm glad that Schieffer brought that up in the debate so that we know exactly where Romney and Obama are on human rights in the Middle East.

edited 25th Oct '12 10:54:26 AM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#35210: Oct 25th 2012 at 10:51:46 AM

[up][up][up] Attack Americans in general, or attack American militias that have revolted against the Federal government and seized large swathes of territory for themselves?

edited 25th Oct '12 10:52:16 AM by RavenWilder

#35211: Oct 25th 2012 at 10:53:45 AM

[up][up][up] Yeah, the most likely scenario if China sent drones after us (or if we sent drones after China, for that matter) would be "hey, thanks for the free drones! Our engineers will get right to work reverse-engineering your tech".

edited 25th Oct '12 10:54:06 AM by EdwardsGrizzly

<><
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#35212: Oct 25th 2012 at 10:55:13 AM

Well, are you saying Obama has never once refused to sign off on a drone strike?

[up] "Heeeeey wait a second, this is our tech! You thieving bastards!

edited 25th Oct '12 10:55:42 AM by TheyCallMeTomu

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#35213: Oct 25th 2012 at 10:55:52 AM

[up][up] I can honestly see that happening. We already have jobs being outsourced and American workers being forced to train their replacements.

On the other hand, all who gain power are afraid to lose it. Drone strikes is another form of power. Nobody wants to relinquish that kind of power.

[up] Obama's never refused to sign off on a drone strike. All drone strikes were authorized on his word alone. It's right up there with the NDAA bill, and it's why I won't vote for him.

edited 25th Oct '12 10:57:21 AM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#35214: Oct 25th 2012 at 11:03:26 AM

I don't see why drone strikes can't be delegated. Why is the President making operational decisions anyway?

And quite frankly, I don't care as much about what's going on in Afghanistan and Pakistan as I do what's going on here in the United States. Even if I did, Romney is not going to be an improvement over Obama in either department.

edited 25th Oct '12 11:04:48 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#35215: Oct 25th 2012 at 11:04:21 AM

He's the Commander-in-Chief. It's his order, because it's his military.

Oh, and it's not like he isn't killing American citizens. Take Anwar al-Awlaki and Abdulrahman al-Awlaki.

edited 25th Oct '12 11:07:10 AM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#35216: Oct 25th 2012 at 11:05:30 AM

It is most definitely not his military. He is the commander in chief, not the Supreme Lord and Master. The military belongs to the country. The role of command staff is to dictate strategy, not to micromanage the ground troops.

edited 25th Oct '12 11:06:05 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#35217: Oct 25th 2012 at 11:07:47 AM

This sounds like my advisor merely putting his signature on registration forms that I've done all the research to fill out with appropriate classes, gotten the instructors' permissions for myself, and read up on the class details on my own, and then presented to my advisor for a five-minute face-to-face meeting where he asks me how I'm doing, takes one look at the form, and then signs it.

I presume the president is doing about as much to "order" these drone strikes. The actual operational strategy is almost certainly headed by actual military commanders, who merely present it to the president so he can sign off on it.

Now how much credit or blame do you give the POTUS, if this were true? Just an open question.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#35218: Oct 25th 2012 at 11:08:06 AM

[up][up]He is the commander in chief. Everyone in the military answers to him.

The Kill List, it is called. His orders. His responsibility.

Guys like Abdulrahman die because of these drone strikes. And he's an American citizen.

edited 25th Oct '12 11:11:13 AM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#35219: Oct 25th 2012 at 11:10:01 AM

Serocco, how do you feel about America's involvement in the Libyan Revolution? Do you see that as having been a good move or a bad move?

GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#35220: Oct 25th 2012 at 11:10:17 AM

I see it as a good move. It was both morally justifiable and in the United States' interests.

edited 25th Oct '12 11:10:35 AM by GlennMagusHarvey

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#35221: Oct 25th 2012 at 11:14:04 AM

It was a step up from Iraq and Afghanistan. We let the Libyans do the heavy lifting while we screwed Gaddafi's forces over. I certainly can't see Romney or McCain doing the same.

The Benghazi attack does seem like an event that the Obama admin used to play politics with, lest they get branded with the "Happened Under Watch" label.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
theweirdKiddokun What a Wonderful World! from Last Place in the Race Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
What a Wonderful World!
#35222: Oct 25th 2012 at 11:14:46 AM

[up][up][up][up]Anwar al-Awlair was a Al-Qaeda backer and supporter that was wanted by the FBI.

As for his son that was upsetting, but I seen enough in history to know where that was going.

[up]....What? Romney talks about that more than Obama.

edited 25th Oct '12 11:15:57 AM by theweirdKiddokun

The Reaper Games starts anew.
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#35223: Oct 25th 2012 at 11:16:01 AM

[up] Anwar was still an American citizen. He had the right to a fair trial. Why a drone strike over a fair trial? Isn't a right to a fair trial the American way?

edited 25th Oct '12 11:16:46 AM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
theweirdKiddokun What a Wonderful World! from Last Place in the Race Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
What a Wonderful World!
#35224: Oct 25th 2012 at 11:16:59 AM

[up]He escape and was hiding. This happen a lot during the Cold War and they still ended up dead.

The Reaper Games starts anew.
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#35225: Oct 25th 2012 at 11:18:40 AM

He was just a propagandist. Not a commander. Not even a collaborator. Just an associate and a propagandist.

edited 25th Oct '12 11:18:52 AM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.

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