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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#35001: Oct 24th 2012 at 10:11:15 AM

Running a business does teach you how to create jobs...as a businessperson.

It does not teach you how to create jobs as a policymaker.

Speaking of which, running a business also teaches you how to destroy jobs.

edited 24th Oct '12 10:11:56 AM by GlennMagusHarvey

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#35002: Oct 24th 2012 at 10:13:22 AM

[up]

That too. It teaches you how to create jobs in a sense of running your business. it does not make you an expert at predicting job trends across all industries or macroeconomics.

whuich is why I always find it funny when local missouri politicans lately run on their record as a "job creator"

edited 24th Oct '12 10:13:54 AM by Midgetsnowman

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#35003: Oct 24th 2012 at 10:17:40 AM

Especially since Macro economics works almost exactly opposite micro economics. Ideally we'd want to avoid anyone who focuses too much on microeconomics trying to suddenly shift to macroeconomics. It should be seen as a negative because their mindset is directly in opposition to where it should be for their new position.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#35004: Oct 24th 2012 at 10:21:09 AM

Laypeople unfortunately don't know economics, let alone the difference between macroeconomics and microeconomics.

If they understood economics, they would understand what market failures and externalities are.

johnnyfog Actual Wrestling Legend from the Zocalo Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Actual Wrestling Legend
#35005: Oct 24th 2012 at 10:34:29 AM

That's a failure of logic, too. To accept that Romney will improve our lives is to blindly accept Reaganomics, which was supposedly debunked when Bush Sr. was defeated in '93. Trickle down theory. Keep the bigwigs happy and maybe they'll offer the poor some scraps.

At least the well-off have a legitimate reason to vote Republican. My boss loathes Romney, even though he bluntly admits that a Republican government is better for him financially.

I honestly suspect that it's Stockholm syndrome, or plain extortion. Vote for me or my friends will lay you off.

I'm a skeptical squirrel
GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#35006: Oct 24th 2012 at 10:36:55 AM

Wait, trickle-down theory was defeated once before?

Why are we still fighting it?

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#35007: Oct 24th 2012 at 10:39:17 AM

Because it's become a delusion of right-wing politics. You can't fix a delusion by logic.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#35008: Oct 24th 2012 at 10:43:16 AM

George Dubya. Koch Brothers. Wall Street. Etc. Also add in most people think business, country and government economics works like household economics, and it "makes sense". Macroeconomics tends to rely on counter-intuitive logic to most people.

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#35009: Oct 24th 2012 at 10:44:37 AM

[up]

This. Macroeconomics makes sense. Once you think about it.

If you're told outright that macroeconomics works the exact opposite of balancing your checkbook, theyll think you're crazy.

I mean, hell, I've had people look utterly confused when they find out how banks account their money.

edited 24th Oct '12 10:45:22 AM by Midgetsnowman

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#35010: Oct 24th 2012 at 10:51:51 AM

[up][up]

Macroeconomics tends to rely on counter-intuitive logic to most people.

Of course, when some hear that, they'll think macroeconomics should work like microeconomics and make it work that way, logic and reality be dammed!

Keep Rolling On
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#35011: Oct 24th 2012 at 11:12:30 AM

The real trickle down theory is that the bigwigs eventually get paranoid when there's signs of the proletariat uprising and they think "OH SHIT, we'd better make their lives marginally better or else there's going to be a communist overthrow."

I mean, unions man. Unions.

terlwyth Since: Oct, 2010
#35012: Oct 24th 2012 at 11:12:32 AM

Well I finally got my ballot,looks like Anderson isn't on the ballot,....Roseanne Barr is though.

Some guy named Thomas Hoefling made it to

Lots and lots of propositions,and I really should take a quick look at the local stuff.

GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#35013: Oct 24th 2012 at 11:14:11 AM

By the way, if you see ads for a site called "momthink.org", it's run by the people behind Intellectual Takeout. That's their about page there; you can tell which way it leans just by reading it.

Of course, you could just take a guess looking at the relative lengths of their pages on Austrian economics and Keynesian economics (or their banner images for that matter), or at momthink.org's list of topics:

Mom Empowerment Packages

Welcome to Mom Think!
The Economy and You
Obamacare (Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act)
America's Regulatory Environment
Energy Freedom for America
Constitutional Limits
Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP)
Missile Defense
America's Allies
America's Adversaries
External Threats to America
Internal Threats to America

For those of you don't feel like guessing:

Today, we find ourselves inheriting a highly-regulated society wherein hardly any activity or creation is left untouched by government influence. It is a society in which freedom is but a shadow of what it once was and what it should be.

Some say it's different now than in bygone eras because society has evolved and the world is more complex. In fact, many in the establishment argue that a highly active government, partnered with politically-connected businesses, is necessary in order to have a just and prosperous society in the modern world. At Intellectual Takeout, we do not believe that to be true.

Be assured, a "just and prosperous" society built around a highly-active government favoring special interests is neither just nor prosperous. More to the point, the bill for that society is likely to come due on our generation's watch. The time to take back our future is now.

Intellectual Takeout was founded to take back our future because there is a better way forward. We reach back to deeper truths in order to present what could be, based on individual liberty, limited government, and economic freedom with a healthy respect for the important roles family, culture, and religion play in a free society. By doing so, we hope to provide our readers with the knowledge, clarity, and confidence necessary to pursue a bright future.

Let's just say I disagree with the notion that if we stop government involvement in the economym it'll magically get better. Uhh, those government policies were put in place in the first place for a reason, and that's because the markets weren't working right in the first place and needed tweaking.

edited 24th Oct '12 11:21:57 AM by GlennMagusHarvey

GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#35014: Oct 24th 2012 at 11:19:32 AM

Open question: Is it true that conservatives are more likely to use "America" than "the United States"/"the U.S."? What about "nation" versus "country"?

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#35015: Oct 24th 2012 at 11:29:56 AM

Theoretically, it would be "nation"

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
terlwyth Since: Oct, 2010
#35016: Oct 24th 2012 at 11:38:29 AM

[up][up] Yup the conservatives will definitely use America more than U.S. or USA,extra points if they refer to it as 'Murrica

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#35017: Oct 24th 2012 at 11:47:41 AM

I tend to be self-conscious about using "America" in general conversation because it's a bit culturally myopic. "American" is the proper demonym, of course, but the country is the United States of America, or United States for short. I would suggest that the tendency to default to "America" is inversely proportional to education, but I have no statistics to back that up.

I would also guess that more educated liberals tend to have a worldview that encompasses more than just the U.S. and as such are indeed more culturally sensitive.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#35018: Oct 24th 2012 at 11:49:42 AM

  1. Mitt Romney makes a TV advertisement supporting Indiana Republican U.S. Senate candidate Richard Mourdock.
  2. Mitt Romney disavows Indiana Republican U.S. Senate candidate Richard Mourdock.

Record time!

Tangent128 from Virginia Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
#35019: Oct 24th 2012 at 12:17:17 PM

Reference, GMH?

And after an old thread on the subject, I have decided I prefer the term "Usan" tongue

Do you highlight everything looking for secret messages?
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#35020: Oct 24th 2012 at 12:50:51 PM

[up][up] Let's be fair: That's just really bad luck on Mitt's part. How was he supposed to know this guy would say something like that the day after he got an endorsement from Romney?

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#35021: Oct 24th 2012 at 12:52:11 PM

I hope that the "Obama wins 2 out of 3 debates" doesn't follow the same formula that Kerry or Gore did versus Bush.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#35022: Oct 24th 2012 at 12:55:41 PM

That's a failure of logic, too. To accept that Romney will improve our lives is to blindly accept Reaganomics, which was supposedly debunked when Bush Sr. was defeated in '93. Trickle down theory. Keep the bigwigs happy and maybe they'll offer the poor some scraps.

At least the well-off have a legitimate reason to vote Republican. My boss loathes Romney, even though he bluntly admits that a Republican government is better for him financially.

I honestly suspect that it's Stockholm syndrome, or plain extortion. Vote for me or my friends will lay you off.

My personal theory is that the upper middle class and small business owners are the prisoners that are tricked into running the prison. Pay a very high proportion of your revenues in taxes, work seven days a week to keep your business running, and you can become a wealthy exec too, as long as you keep those unions and working poor down! Oh, and vote for policies that screw your middle class consumer base.

The fact that many small business owners who work 70 hour weeks pay more in taxes than the likes of Mitt Romney (who made considerable money exporting the jobs that belonged to those small business' customers) should tell you who's really on the side of the small business owner in America.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#35023: Oct 24th 2012 at 1:05:05 PM

Conservative Republicans in Congress are busily shooting themselves in the foot by letting loose their inner crazies. They could very well hand both houses to Obama.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#35024: Oct 24th 2012 at 1:06:16 PM

Then again, Obama won all three debates against McCain, so yeah.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#35025: Oct 24th 2012 at 1:12:42 PM

How did the Palin/Biden debate go? I couldn't bear to look at Sarah on television by that point.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

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