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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Voltron64 Since: Jul, 2016
#344651: Dec 24th 2020 at 11:05:34 AM

Sometimes I wonders what these people could have been if they'd had ever been loved?

Like genuinely, unconditionally loved despite of and even because of things about themselves they're afraid of?

Reflextion from a post-sanity world (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
#344652: Dec 24th 2020 at 11:09:49 AM

Nope! They want to be hateful spiteful cockasses, then they can just be hated. Nobody is entitled to being treated with more kindness than they themselves are willing to show those same people.

Edited by Reflextion on Dec 24th 2020 at 2:10:45 PM

Someone did tell me life was going to be this way.
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#344653: Dec 24th 2020 at 11:13:31 AM

Well, I believe that if they were loved before they became like this, it could have been stopped before it started. But now, it's probably too late for most of them.

My musician page
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#344654: Dec 24th 2020 at 11:20:16 AM

It’s absurd to suggest that people become authoritarians because they weren’t loved. Love, frankly, has nothing to do with it.

These people ascribe to a fundamentally different worldview than the rest of the country. Like someone mentioned on a previous page, they see rights as a zero sum game, where you’re either the oppressor or the oppressed, and they’ll do anything to stay in that first category.

They should have sent a poet.
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#344655: Dec 24th 2020 at 11:25:47 AM

Perhaps "love" isn't the right word, and in that case forgive my lack of understanding of the concept. But they were definitely taught their view; it's not something they have as an instinct, and I do consider the insulation from such beliefs a necessary component of good upbringing.

My musician page
Voltron64 Since: Jul, 2016
#344656: Dec 24th 2020 at 11:33:42 AM

[up] It's kind of what I meant, yeah.

NickTheSwing Since: Aug, 2009
#344657: Dec 24th 2020 at 1:12:57 PM

So it looks like Jared got his wish and his dad Charles got a pardon.

Charles Kushner, the same guy who sent a prostitute to his brother-in-law's house to entrap him and then send the video to his sister.

I'm almost awe-inspired by that sheer level of bastard.

Edited by NickTheSwing on Dec 24th 2020 at 1:13:11 AM

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#344658: Dec 24th 2020 at 1:15:29 PM

There was a study that revealed that conservatives and liberals are actually mentally different, with conservatives placing higher values on security, predictability, and authority, while liberals place higher value in novelty, nuance, and complexity.

Granted, this is correlation research, not necessarily causation - and those differences can pop up within families (I'm quite liberal while my brother is a Marine and, while somewhat open-minded, has no tolerance for Transgender stuff).

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
NickTheSwing Since: Aug, 2009
#344659: Dec 24th 2020 at 1:20:47 PM

I've ran into a number of libertarians (and...further right folks) who are rather astonished by my...mental differences, and why I'm aligned with liberal rather than conservative causes.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#344660: Dec 24th 2020 at 1:32:52 PM

The fundamental differences not just in the beliefs of the different wings but in how they approach the concept of belief are very important to keep in mind when navigating a bipartisan conversation.

Being a Republican is very much a form of Social Darwinism. When everything is a competition, there is no such thing as an underprivileged class. There are only winners, losers, cheaters, and victims of cheating. They see themselves as winners and/or victims of cheating. This is a strictly emotional position, not based on facts of any sort, nor refutable by facts of any sort.

And no, as much as it may seem like a great "Gotcha!", pointing out that their group are actually cheaters won't actually win you debates. They will not accept your logic, though they are happy to hear that you agree about the fundamentally hierarchical nature of reality. They're glad that's settled.

Never concede ground to them for the sake of setting up a "Gotcha!". The "Gotcha!" isn't actually worth it.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 24th 2020 at 1:34:35 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#344661: Dec 24th 2020 at 1:45:00 PM

I would describe myself as placing higher values on security, predictability, and authority... but in this instance that's exactly why I'm against Trump.

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#344662: Dec 24th 2020 at 1:47:25 PM

[up]I'm in the same boat. However, I believe we mean "authority" in a rather different sense than conservatives do.

My musician page
Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#344663: Dec 24th 2020 at 1:48:22 PM

That zero-sum game ideology sounds more like Trumpism than American conservatism

Voltron64 Since: Jul, 2016
#344664: Dec 24th 2020 at 1:51:21 PM

[up][up][up][up]

Honestly, the whole "everything is a competition"-aspect? It sounds like it must be utterly exhausting in every way I can think of to be like that.

Edited by Voltron64 on Dec 24th 2020 at 2:53:54 AM

MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#344666: Dec 24th 2020 at 1:57:12 PM

Do these people even care about the capitalist way of life when they're utterly consumed by anger and hatred?

I would assume yes, because capitalism does foster a sense of both competition and hierarchy that the hateful love, as well as the means to exploit the object of their hatred.

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#344667: Dec 24th 2020 at 2:04:19 PM

[up]

A general retort to someone complaining about how a business goes about its business is "If you don't like it, start your own!"

Of course, this is overlooking the fact that it's the emphasis placed on Stock value that lead a lot of companies to place emphasis on short-term profits rather than long-term gains. If they focus on the latter, the investors will flee because they're not going to be profitable for them, which is a uniquely shitty state of affairs.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Steven (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#344668: Dec 24th 2020 at 2:09:35 PM

@voltron

Not for those people. They live in the moment. They always need to one up someone, they always need to prove they are better than you or whoever else, and they always need to win. I had a friend in high school who would try to make a competition out of everything, even in single player video games like who could beat the game the fastest or who could beat the game while finding everything. He did it for EVERYTHING we played and always wanted to play competitive games like Smash Bros 1 on 1. I got sick of it and grew to hate competition as a concept.

Remember, these idiots drive, fuck, and vote. Not always in that order.
NickTheSwing Since: Aug, 2009
#344669: Dec 24th 2020 at 2:14:36 PM

I personally just cannot stand the tribalism that seems to flourish in the Republican Party.

Pendrake That Guy from "Sweet Something of.... Someplace!" (Canada) Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Betrayed by Delilah
That Guy
#344670: Dec 24th 2020 at 2:42:25 PM

In fairness, being a Libertarian doesn't mean you can't be a complete bastard either.

Case in point, my Ex-Brother-in-Law.

While your personality can be somewhat indicative of your political views and vice versa, you can't really blanket statement stuff like that.

Semper Fi. Semper Paratus. Vigilo Confido.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#344671: Dec 24th 2020 at 2:47:57 PM

If you are trying to go “not all Lolbertarians” your post is worded incorrectly. Double negatives are tricky like that.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Pendrake That Guy from "Sweet Something of.... Someplace!" (Canada) Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Betrayed by Delilah
That Guy
#344672: Dec 24th 2020 at 2:53:08 PM

I wasn't. I was just mentioning that I've known more than a few self-described Libertarians who were complete pieces of shit.

After all, being an asshole knows no race, gender, religion, creed, sexuality, etc.

Semper Fi. Semper Paratus. Vigilo Confido.
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#344673: Dec 24th 2020 at 2:55:06 PM

[up]That's actually the default assumption.

My musician page
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#344674: Dec 24th 2020 at 3:02:14 PM

There is a reason I call them lolbertarians.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#344675: Dec 24th 2020 at 3:07:32 PM

It is my default assumption that anyone who openly professes to be a Libertarian has at least one of the following traits:

  • They resent the idea that any agency or force can interfere with their personal self-indulgence, whatever that may be.
  • They are angry because they are or were not allowed to indulge their natural inclination to be an asshole.
  • They wish to scam or defraud other people without punishment.
  • They have aberrant or problematic personal traits/beliefs that are rejected by society at large and they blame society for that rejection.
  • They abhor the social contract and the idea that they owe any obligation to society for benefiting from its fruits.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

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