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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#344301: Dec 21st 2020 at 8:29:39 AM

[up]The South always wanted them to be America’s heroes because those ideals of racial superiority are what they believe was the best for the country. Essentially unquestioned privilege.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#344302: Dec 21st 2020 at 8:35:36 AM

Robert E. Lee statue removed from US Capitol – A statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee was removed from the U.S. Capitol overnight.

There was a statue of Robert E. Lee in our nation's motherfucking capitol?!?!

I mean, this is the best possible way to find that out, but still! What the actual fuck, America?!

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#344303: Dec 21st 2020 at 8:37:05 AM

That was my reaction, too.

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#344305: Dec 21st 2020 at 8:40:19 AM

But the South are Americans now, so heroes of racism and slavery are America's heroes.

They were Americans then, too. Kind of the entire point of a civil war caused by attempted secession, that. tongue

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#344306: Dec 21st 2020 at 8:46:29 AM

Reading the article and okay, the Lee statue kinda makes sense now. The statue was in the National Statuary Hall, which permits each state to send up to two statues for immortalization. Virginia, former capitol of the Confederacy, sent General Lee because of fucking course they did.

Virginia's current governor signed off on the removal and will be instead submitting schoolteacher and Civil Rights activist Barbara Johns to replace Lee.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 21st 2020 at 8:47:10 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
FinestArts Vampire Mouse of Mars from The North Lands Since: Apr, 2020 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Vampire Mouse of Mars
#344307: Dec 21st 2020 at 9:16:04 AM

About Lee, why isn't the abhorrent shit about him from the previous page more well known? Like, that seems pretty fucking important to leave out in most history lessons.

Reflextion from a post-sanity world (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
#344308: Dec 21st 2020 at 9:17:30 AM

Because "LOST FUCKING CAUSE OF THE FUCKING SOUTH", states' rights, honorable people on both sides of the conflict, and all that bullshit to paper over the fact that it was about white fucking supremacy.

Edited by Reflextion on Dec 21st 2020 at 12:18:08 PM

Someone did tell me life was going to be this way.
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#344309: Dec 21st 2020 at 9:17:38 AM

Cuz' that'd make the southern states who glory him look bad.

And as we know, making the slaverunning fascists look bad is bad.

Edited by Aszur on Dec 21st 2020 at 11:21:34 AM

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#344310: Dec 21st 2020 at 9:19:23 AM

[up]x3 - The history books, particularly ones from the states where these people came from, deliberately are written to soften their image. Blame the system without blaming the enablers, that sort of thing.

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#344311: Dec 21st 2020 at 9:26:09 AM

Popular media/culture/history/whatever is simply too cowardly to call a spade a spade, probably because they're too afraid to face the discomfort that would cause head on.

i'm tired, my friend
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#344312: Dec 21st 2020 at 9:28:41 AM

I recall in 5th grade the class being made to go through a book that took place during The Civil War and had a Peace Aesop. Even at the time, that bugged the hell out of me.

Leviticus 19:34
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#344313: Dec 21st 2020 at 9:33:54 AM

[up][up]Same reason people are afraid to make media that offends certain governments. They want the dollars.

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#344314: Dec 21st 2020 at 9:34:38 AM

When no one was looking, Robert E. Lee took forty cakes. He took 40 cakes.

[THIS SENTENCE REDACTED BY THE KANSAS EDUCATION BOARD].

And that's [REDACTED IN YOUR STATE].

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Altris from the Vortex Since: Aug, 2019 Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
#344315: Dec 21st 2020 at 9:35:44 AM

Re: textbooks: Texas is one of the states the textbooks try to please because the state board adopts textbooks for the whole state, and Texas is big. The board is well known for enforcing a conservative outlook on the curriculum via pressuring textbook authors to censor/diminish things like unions and promote conservative icons like Joseph McCarthy. Wouldn't surprise me if the other southern states saw that and went, "hey, we agree with all of this, I'll take a million copies of your conservative-Christian outlook, please".

So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my Tumblr
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#344316: Dec 21st 2020 at 9:41:30 AM

Between the massive losses sustained on both sides and the fact that the Union still had to govern areas where the majority of the white population had supported treason to some extent, trying to bury the hatchet made a lot of sense (to American whites). Doesn't help that after Lincoln gets shot, there is a Southern sympathizer in the Oval Office.

Its like the occupation of the Axis Powers, on roids. Yes, the bulk of the population (not just the officers and high ranking officials) is guilty to some extent in committing atrocities (or passively accepting them), and a lot of them are unrepentant or even still believe they did nothing wrong other than lose. Except now, eventually you have to let these people vote and reenter peacetime society, rather than just setup a liberal democracy and gradually downgrade your military presence (Soviet problems permitting) over time. What you are going to do, hang or jail everyone who refuses to be Reconstructed?

In addition, a lot of Unionist and Northerners main issue with the South was with the whole treason thing. They largely opposed slavery, but to most Jim Crow was a perfectly acceptable scenario if it kept the peace. After the deadliest war in the Western Hemisphere's history, who wants to keep putting down revolts for the sake of people most whites still considered their inferiors?


BREAKING: Outgoing AG William Barr says there is no need for special counsels to investigate Hunter Biden, or to order voting machines seized.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/21/politics/william-barr-hunter-biden-election-special-counsel/index.html

Edited by Rationalinsanity on Dec 21st 2020 at 1:44:58 PM

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#344317: Dec 21st 2020 at 9:47:53 AM

The seeds for all of this were sown in 1865; it goes farther back than the Texas Board of Education. Lincoln, and after him, both Johnson and the so-called Radical Republicans saw a need to reunite the country. The idea of liquidating the white slaveowning caste or bloodily crushing the KKK was not on the table.

EDIT: [nja] but...

What you are going to do, hang or jail everyone who refuses to be Reconstructed?

As I understand it, Grant wanted to disenfranchise the South for a generation, and there were a couple of proposals for seizing the plantations and distributing them to the freedmen - which would have required Crushing the Populace. So yeah, that was on the table.

Edited by Ramidel on Dec 21st 2020 at 8:49:52 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#344318: Dec 21st 2020 at 9:55:21 AM

As I understand it, Grant wanted to disenfranchise the South for a generation, and there were a couple of proposals for seizing the plantations and distributing them to the freedmen - which would have required Crushing the Populace. So yeah, that was on the table.

It was a tragedy that this did not happen, the Reconstruction we got resulted in both immediate harm to black people when the Southern whites resumed their normal racial dominion and long term harm with the bolstering to Reaction it caused that lead us to our current situation.

The cowardice and racism of Northern whites were sickening. If they had more Will we would be in a far better situation.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#344319: Dec 21st 2020 at 9:57:30 AM

It's funny that myth about Lee spread far and wide. My father is very left-wing, was a hippy in the 60s and enthusiastically supported Bernie in 2016, Elizabeth Warren in 2020, yadda yadda. Even he believed that myth about Lee and he was from New Jersey. I'm almost certain he doesn't believe it now (I haven't asked him about it), but still it permeated far outside just the south.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#344320: Dec 21st 2020 at 10:19:45 AM

The Lee mythology is a large part of the conventional wisdom about the Civil War, to the point that it’s part of well-respected sources.

If you ever want a better understanding of propaganda and how it operates, keep an eye on Shelby Foote’s comments in Ken Burns’s The Civil War. Propaganda isn’t just a demagogue yelling at a rally. Propaganda is a courteous, educated, soft-spoken man telling engaging stories in a respected historical documentary in order to obsfucate what the war really was.

clemont107 Mega Togekiss?! from Land of Missed Opportunities (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Mega Togekiss?!
#344321: Dec 21st 2020 at 10:21:36 AM

[up]Bonus points if said man is Believing Their Own Lies.

"Wow, no Mega Togekiss in Legends Z-A. Or any non-Froslass new Sinnoh Mega Evolutions. Round of applause, everybody." - Dawn
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#344322: Dec 21st 2020 at 10:27:34 AM

It didn't hurt that Lee did pull off a few victories he had no business winning, and held out longer than he should have (even when facing down competent opponents like Grant and Meade). There is a reason the Lost Cause decided to make him their Messiah, rather than boring political figures like Davis or failures like Bragg. He's the Confederate Rommel, in a way.

Edited by Rationalinsanity on Dec 21st 2020 at 2:28:33 PM

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#344323: Dec 21st 2020 at 10:28:29 AM

Lost Causers really demonstrates that people who believe that history is written by the victors don't know shit.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#344324: Dec 21st 2020 at 10:29:53 AM

Yup, history is written by the survivors. And they pass it onto to future generations, in particular a certain group of rich women who pulled off one of the biggest propaganda victories in American history before they even had the right to vote...

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#344325: Dec 21st 2020 at 10:30:17 AM

In this case, they failed in making the losers shut up.

Wake me up at your own risk.

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