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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#344201: Dec 19th 2020 at 4:05:15 PM

Except they don’t negotiate, it’s give them their tax cuts and get nothing or simply get nothing.

There’s no making deals with Republicans, we learnt that after 2010. There’s no mutual beneficial deal, it’s total surrender or nothing for them.

You know we got Obama care passed without filibuster reform. We got Civil Rights legislation passed that way too.

What the hell are you talking about? Obamacare got passed with a 60 seat senate majority, and they had to scrap the public option to get the 60 votes needed to override the filibuster.

The Civil Rights Act was similar, it got 73 votes, do you think there are enough Republican senators who support reintroducing it fully to get to 73 votes?

Edited by Silasw on Dec 19th 2020 at 12:08:56 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#344202: Dec 19th 2020 at 4:06:39 PM

We had a lot more senators back when we passed Obamacare.

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#344203: Dec 19th 2020 at 4:06:54 PM

Yeah, you prevent them from getting their tax cuts, privatization, or deregulation until they give us some of what we want. That's how politics work.

That falls under "negotiation with terroists."

You know we got Obama care passed without filibuster reform. We got Civil Rights legislation passed that way too.

We had 60 votes for Obamacare. I have serious doubts if that will ever happen again.

Edit: [nja]x2

Edited by ShinyCottonCandy on Dec 19th 2020 at 7:07:21 AM

My musician page
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#344204: Dec 19th 2020 at 4:08:28 PM

Heck, we're in the run off of our lives just to get to 50.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#344205: Dec 19th 2020 at 4:08:54 PM

Yes, Silasw, that's how it's done. You wheel and deal behind the scenes until you have the votes you need, except with a Dem president we don't need to worry about a veto.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#344206: Dec 19th 2020 at 4:08:58 PM

Yeah, you prevent them from getting their tax cuts, privatization, or deregulation until they give us some of what we want. That's how politics work.

Firstly, drop the condescension. I know how politics works.

Furthermore, do you know what's at stake? Getting nothing done would be a disaster, stopping bad things from happening is of some worth but we shouldn't pretend that it's remotely acceptable.

You know we got Obama care passed without filibuster reform. We got Civil Rights legislation passed that way too.

Obamacare passed because we had a supermajority for a very brief period of time. We're not getting one now, we aren't getting one in four years. We may not get one in ten years.

Abolishing the filibuster is objectively a necessary pre-requisite for any level of change.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#344207: Dec 19th 2020 at 4:24:44 PM

Abolishing the filibuster might be useful, although I think that might bite us one day, but you have to have a plan of what to do without it. Same with a super-majority, or anything else. The rule is always the same, you get what you can, you give as little away as possible, and you start organizing for the next election. I think we can do a little more than just preventing the Republicans from accomplishing their goals, even without filibuster reform. You don't just give up because you don't have the cards you wish you had. So we try for a majority in the Senate, and if we get it we can re-write the rules to our desire, if not then we roll up our sleeves and start haggling. If they don't respond in kind, then they don't, we can't control that. Clinton did it, so can Biden (the difference being that this time around the progressives are in a stronger position within the party—so the resulting legislation will include more of our goals).

"All or nothing" is great, if you can pull it off. Otherwise, you go with a plan B.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
AngrokVa indighost from america, unfortunately Since: Feb, 2012 Relationship Status: Saddled with unnecessary feelings
indighost
#344208: Dec 19th 2020 at 4:48:50 PM

From CNN: Heated Oval Office meeting included talk of special counsel, martial law as Trump advisers clash

President Donald Trump convened a heated meeting in the Oval Office on Friday, including lawyer Sidney Powell and her client, former national security adviser Michael Flynn, two people familiar with the matter said, describing a session that began as an impromptu gathering but devolved and eventually broke out into screaming matches at certain points as some of Trump's aides pushed back on Powell and Flynn's more outrageous suggestions about overturning the election.

Flynn had suggested earlier this week that Trump could invoke martial law as part of his efforts to overturn the election that he lost to President-elect Joe Biden — an idea that arose again during the meeting in the Oval Office, one of the people said. It wasn't clear whether Trump endorsed the idea, but others in the room forcefully pushed back and shot it down.

The meeting was first reported by the New York Times.

White House aides who participated in the meeting, including White House chief of staff Mark Meadows and counsel Pat Cipollone, also pushed back intensely on the suggestion of naming Powell as a special counsel to investigate voter fraud allegations Trump's own administration has dismissed (or, as seems more feasible, hiring her in the administration for some kind of investigatory role). Powell has focused her conspiracies on voting machines and has floated the notion of having a special counsel inspect the machines for flaws.

Another idea floated in the meeting was an executive order that would permit the government to access voting machines to inspect them.

One person described the meeting as "ugly" as Powell and Flynn accused others of abandoning the President as he works to overturn the results of the election.

"It was heated — people were really fighting it out in the Oval, really forceful about it," one of the sources said.

One of the sources described an escalating sense of concern among Trump's aides, even those who have weathered his previous controversies, about what steps he might take next as his term comes to an end.

Shortly after that meeting, Trump's campaign staff received a memo from the campaign legal team on Saturday instructing them to preserve all documents related to Dominion Voting Systems and Powell in anticipation of potential litigation by the company against the pro-Trump attorney.

The memo, viewed by CNN, references a letter Dominion sent to Powell this week demanding she publicly retract her accusations and instructs campaign staff not to alter, destroy or discard records that could be relevant.

A serious internal divide has formed within Trump's campaign following the election with tensions at their highest between the campaign's general counsel, Matt Morgan, who sent the memo Saturday, and Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani. Though the campaign once distanced itself from Powell, Trump has been urging other people to fight like she has, according to multiple people familiar with his remarks. He has asked for more people making her arguments, which are often baseless and filled with conspiracy theories, on television.

On one hand, the fact that these were even considered is somewhat concerning. On the other hand, there's two things to note. 1) The United States Army General had said back in November, "We do not take an oath to a king or a queen, a tyrant or a dictator. We do not take an oath to an individual." And 2) there's something that people are failing to take away from this article (presumably because a lot of people don't actually bother to read the articles), and that's the fact that this article mentions that there was quite a bit of pushback, backlash, screaming matches at times. They're tearing each other apart. And honestly? Good. They should. Better that the GOP tears itself apart, rather than this country.

Edited by AngrokVa on Dec 19th 2020 at 7:50:00 AM

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#344209: Dec 19th 2020 at 5:11:25 PM

My takeaway from this.

Rudi being in quarantine due to COVID has somehow managed to make Trump’s legal team get even dumber...

Also it’s hilarious that none of them seem to realise that martial law could result in them all being arrested, the DOD could have jurisdiction to arrest them for sedition.

Edited by Silasw on Dec 19th 2020 at 1:12:38 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Wispy Since: Feb, 2017
#344210: Dec 19th 2020 at 5:25:14 PM

I honestly am curious what will happen if they were to try. The military despises Trump and his cronies and sooner turn on them than us.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#344211: Dec 19th 2020 at 6:49:09 PM

It's been clear for awhile but this just seals it that Trump is an evil man.

Rarely do I use that word but EVIL.

He would try to take over the country with soldiers rather than respect democracy. Because he's a monster.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#344212: Dec 19th 2020 at 6:53:42 PM

"We got Trump precisely because the Republican establishment is spineless and cannot stand up to its extremist base."

Kinda, the republican did spend decade polarizing the party but it did in small step so they never lost the deniability and because even them want to remain sightly competent when it become to runing things.

Trump flood all that shit with his populist and grab the party by the.....neck, if anything the question remain if the GOP can control their base now that trump have put them in a frenzy.

And see how the GOP is throwing everything behind this scheme to put him in the seat, is clear they they know they cant go without him.

"Edit: For a long time, liberal/left groups around the world have operated under the notion that there is some natural progression towards their ideology and that we only need to get out of its way for it to happen. This is the greatest fallacy of the 20th century.

"

Kinda, there is this idea their ideas are logical and proof by themselves and if they dont is because people dosent get it, this is getting more annoying as time past.

"Yes, that's a reasonable concern, especially since Obama fell into the same trap. I agree with you."

Well obama fail into that because the republican around the time still was capable of bipartianship and suddenly they become "my way or not way", in part becuase of him so he was caught by surprise.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#344213: Dec 19th 2020 at 6:57:36 PM

Rudi being in quarantine due to COVID has somehow managed to make Trump’s legal team get even dumber...
That moment when you realize Rudi Giuliani was the competent one all along.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#344214: Dec 19th 2020 at 6:59:30 PM

It takes a lot to make Rudi the Only Sane Man, but is it really a surprise that the Trump legal team managed it?

Disgusted, but not surprised
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#344215: Dec 19th 2020 at 7:01:07 PM

Nope.


Minn. Sen. Jerry Relph dies of COVID-19 complications – State Sen. Jerry Relph died Friday following a month-long hospitalization. He tested positive for COVID-19 after attending a post-election party with other Republican senators in November.

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/12/18/minn-sen-jerry-relph-dies-of-covid19-complications


Mexico's president has call with Biden, commits to work together

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-mexico-idUSKBN28U00D

     It's just a short story 
Mexico’s President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador spoke by telephone with U.S. President-elect Joe Biden on Saturday and said both leaders committed to collaborating for the benefit of the neighboring nations.

“We reaffirmed our commitment to working together for the wellbeing of our peoples and nations,” Lopez Obrador said on Twitter.

Mexican foreign minister Marcelo Ebrard described the conversation as “cordial” and tweeted: “There will be extensive bilateral cooperation and a very good relationship between the presidents of Mexico and the United States. Good news!!!”

The leaders of Latin America’s two biggest economies, Brazil and Mexico, congratulated Biden on Tuesday, the day after the U.S. Electoral College confirmed Biden’s Nov. 3 election win. The long delay ignited criticism they were running the risk of alienating Biden and his fellow Democrats.

Edited by sgamer82 on Dec 19th 2020 at 7:04:00 AM

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#344216: Dec 19th 2020 at 7:05:56 PM

if anything the question remain if the GOP can control their base now that trump have put them in a frenzy.

I think the answer at this point is "no". Politicians are now afraid of acknowledging basic facts like who won an election because they're afraid of being voted out or worse, potentially subject to acts of violence.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#344217: Dec 19th 2020 at 7:12:10 PM

At least one GOP mayor resigned out of safety concerns after supporting a mask mandate led to threats:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/i-do-not-feel-safe-kansas-gop-mayor-resigns-after-n1251334

    An Excerpt 
A Republican mayor in western Kansas announced in a letter to city officials and on social media Tuesday that she is resigning, effective immediately, because of threats she has received after she publicly supported a mask mandate.

Mayor Joyce Warshaw of Dodge City said she was concerned about her safety after being met with aggression, including threats via phone and email, after she was quoted in a USA Today article on Friday supporting the mandate, The Dodge City Globe reported. The city commission voted 4-1 on Nov. 16 to impose a mask mandate, with several exceptions.

But Warshaw told NBC News on Tuesday that "threats, accusations and actions" toward her and her family from those in the community forced her to step down.

"[It was a] very very tough, difficult decision to make because I have no regrets about any of my actions or decisions I made as mayor but I think it’s best to move on," Warshaw said. "Particularly my husband said 'you’re done, you’re done.' Maybe the city can just move on.


https://twitter.com/persily/status/1340305930513084418?s=19

In an effort to enter the Bar Association’s Self-Own Hall of Fame, Lin Wood files Georgia election fraud complaint “under plenty of perjury”

Twitter is publicly declaring Joe Biden the winner of the US election — on Trump’s own tweets

https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/19/22190767/twitter-joe-biden-winner-election-trump-tweets

Edited by sgamer82 on Dec 19th 2020 at 7:23:30 AM

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#344218: Dec 19th 2020 at 7:26:12 PM

Are any Democratic Senators besides Manchin adamantly against killing the filibuster?

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#344219: Dec 19th 2020 at 7:51:13 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/policy-2020/voting-changes/eliminate-senate-filibuster/

Joe Biden supports keeping the filibuster.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
TheRoguePenguin Since: Jul, 2009
#344221: Dec 19th 2020 at 8:35:39 PM

Feinstein does, and it's doubtful she'll ever change her mind given her behavior during the Barrett hearing.

clemont107 Mega Togekiss?! from Land of Missed Opportunities (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Mega Togekiss?!
#344222: Dec 19th 2020 at 8:44:43 PM

[up] Feinstein is in her 90s now, if I'm not mistaken. She seems to be one of those centrist Dems generally resistant to progressive policies.

Edit: [down] Thanks for the correction. Still close enough.

Edited by clemont107 on Dec 19th 2020 at 11:50:07 AM

"Wow, no Mega Togekiss in Legends Z-A. Or any non-Froslass new Sinnoh Mega Evolutions. Round of applause, everybody." - Dawn
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#344224: Dec 20th 2020 at 3:00:52 AM

Well, Flynn is proving you all wrong by trying to invoke martial law.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#344225: Dec 20th 2020 at 3:02:40 AM

Except Flynn doesn't actually have any authority. And he's been saying this bullshit for a while now. We've been aware of this.

So how exactly is this proving anyone here wrong?

Sidney Powell being full of crap is also something we've known for a while. The only new thing from that article is that apparently even WH aides are sick of their bullshit too. And that Rudi was apparently the Only Sane Man of the Trump legal team all along.

Edited by M84 on Dec 20th 2020 at 7:04:45 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised

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