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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

ScubaWolf from South Carolina Since: Feb, 2020
#343301: Dec 13th 2020 at 11:24:23 AM

I'm not a fan of what he said, but he's absolutely right that it would just be undone by somebody else if tries to do it with E Os. We have to get it through Congress, which means winning the Senate runoffs in GA.

"In a move surprising absolutely no one"
Pendrake That Guy from "Sweet Something of.... Someplace!" (Canada) Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Betrayed by Delilah
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#343303: Dec 13th 2020 at 11:40:39 AM

Speaking of which: Democrats put self-flagulation on hold to focus on winning in Georgia.

Both Progressive and Moderate groups understand the need to win these seats, so post-election interparty sniping in under a truce while everyone goes to Georgia to work their Ossoff's and secure the Senate.

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#343304: Dec 13th 2020 at 11:48:53 AM

I just saw that. [lol]

i'm tired, my friend
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#343305: Dec 13th 2020 at 11:52:46 AM

I feel like that Biden statement may well be being made into something bigger than it is. He gives exactly one example an executive order he won’t issue and that’s it.

Maybe he’s reacting to something that isn’t there (I'm not aware of a big progressive push for unconstitutional E Os), maybe there’s pressure that we aren’t aware of, maybe he’s created a strawman for cover as he don’t plan to go as far with E Os as he could, maybe he’s just saying what he can to encourage people vote in the runoffs.

We honestly can’t tell, so I’d say it’s far to early to doom over it.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
PointMaid Since: Jun, 2014
#343306: Dec 13th 2020 at 11:53:06 AM

1. As much as I want a real progressive and things to get donenote , I'm going to reserve judgment and see how things go. Biden has an almost ridiculous level of first-hand experience in how things get done (and don't get done) on the ground level. I'm going to hope that works in the Dem's favor. Keep the feet to the fire about what we actually want and need, though? Absolutely.

2. [up][up][up] Nice, excellent. And nice 'work their Ossoff' pun. [lol]

Edited by PointMaid on Dec 13th 2020 at 2:53:27 PM

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#343307: Dec 13th 2020 at 12:20:19 PM

"We just really need these 2 seats, or we can kiss any chance of Biden doing much goodbye."

Not necessarily. Yes, if we get a majority in the Senate certain things become easier (like passing the budget), it isn't game over if we don't.

First off, even a majority isn't filibuster proof. Until the rules get changed, we would still have to compromise with some Republicans to do certain things. Second, even without Executive Orders, the President can't do many things unilaterally. He has executive authority over Federal Agencies, so things like rounding immigrants up in the middle of the night, or failing to enforce environmental legislation, or neglecting our allies, are pretty much going to stop immediately.

The most important policy right now is the pandemic. What Biden needs is emergency authority to organize Personal Protection Equipment manufacture and distribution, money for vaccine distribution, and money for treatment research. Even the Turtle can't oppose any of that.

Next up is economic recovery. This is set to solve itself, since once the vaccine starts working, the stores will open back up again, and people will start spending. If they don't, he will need a stimulus package, and even the Republicans are in favor of some assistance rather than none. So—Biden need do nothing special, and it's most likely in the bag.

Next after that is justice reform. This is tough, because the problems are complex and deep seated, but they don't get much easier just because the Dems have a majority in the Senate. What Biden needs to do is get the Justice Dept. to challenge certain legal precedents in the courts (like qualified immunity) and then win cases. In this case, the Congress can help by passing new legislation, but even that isn't decisive. Biden needs to get the ball rolling, but he can't win this by himself, because probably no presidential term could.

Then there's global warming. In terms of quick steps, this is about getting back into the Paris Agreement. Easy enough—but that alone is merely a symbolic gesture. It's just talking about what to do, not actually doing anything. Substantial steps toward reducing our carbon footprint will be highly complex and involve politically unpopular policies. Biden has a plan, but like all such plans it's long on claims and goals and short on specific steps (but he does say that he will use Executive Orders to achieve what he can).

So there it is. We can expect incremental steps toward a better, more sustainable society, but that's all we can expect. I once heard on a news program that Biden sees himself as a transitionary figure—he wants to set the stage for the next generation of democrats, who will be the one's to actually solve the problems that face us. That means he doesn't expect to be the one that does this. Sadly, I think that's probably realistic.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#343308: Dec 13th 2020 at 12:22:33 PM

[up]"Even the turtle can't oppose that"

That's gonna get a huge citation needed from me.

Edit: wait, did you mean in the sense that it'd be too costly for him, or that he literally isn't allowed to?

Edited by ShinyCottonCandy on Dec 13th 2020 at 3:23:53 PM

My musician page
Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#343309: Dec 13th 2020 at 12:29:55 PM

One thing I would like Biden to use an EO for is student debt relief. I feel like that would go a long way towards boosting the economic downturn after the pandemic. Also because student debt is stupidly high

Edited by Xopher001 on Dec 13th 2020 at 10:30:09 PM

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#343310: Dec 13th 2020 at 12:44:37 PM

"That's gonna get a huge citation needed from me."

Gotcha covered. Granted, their proposal was a lot less than the Dems was, but it wasn't nothing.

Edited by DeMarquis on Dec 13th 2020 at 3:45:04 PM

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#343311: Dec 13th 2020 at 12:46:48 PM

[up]Fair enough. I was more concerned about them tacitly encouraging ground-level sabotage, but given that they've showed that they have a line, that's probably not gonna happen, so I can at least breathe.

My musician page
FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#343312: Dec 13th 2020 at 1:15:37 PM

Haaretz: Ocasio-Cortez Highlights Progressives' Worries About Biden's Cabinet Picks

Key passages:

Biden's team has said long government experience is paramount at a time when the country is facing a historic pandemic and economic uncertainty. But other Democrats are urging him to blend those familiar faces with newer voices.

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., also voiced concern that there was no cohesive vision emerging from Biden's slate of advisers."We can wrestle about whether they are bold enough or ambitious enough, especially given the uncertainty and what kind of Senate we're going to have," Ocasio-Cortez said. "But aside from that, I think one of the things I'm looking for, when I see all of these picks together, is: What is the agenda? What is the overall vision going to be?"

Those nominations highlight the competing priorities Biden is facing as he fills out the top ranks of his administration. He's pledged to nominate the most diverse Cabinet in history and restore experience at beleaguered federal agencies. He's seeking to reward loyalists who have stood with him throughout his lengthy career and give opportunities to new voices in the Democratic Party.

Some of those tensions emerged last week during a meeting between Biden and civil rights leaders who pressed the incoming president to diversify his Cabinet and warned about the Vilsack pick in particular. Vilsack has been criticized for the firing of department official Shirley Sherrod, who is Black, during his last stint at the USDA, a move he later apologized for. NAACP President Derrick Johnson warned Biden that the Vilsack selection could hurt Black turnout in the critical Georgia contests.

Audio was leaked to The Intercept, which released excerpts.

Biden bristled at such concern, saying, "Let's get something straight, you shouldn't be upset."

"What I've done so far is more than what anyone else has done this far," he added. "I mean what I say."

The president-elect has several more Cabinet posts to fill, and has made history with some of his early selections. He nominated retired Army Gen. Lloyd Austin to be the first Black person to lead the Pentagon, while picking California Attorney General Xavier Becerra to be the first Latino to lead the Health and Human Services Department. His nominee for U.S. trade envoy, Katherine Tai, was born in Connecticut to Taiwanese parents.

But those choices were announced after African Americans, Latinos and Asian Americans in Congress voiced concerns that their perspectives may not be fully represented in the new administration. Some nominees will face other hurdles, most notably Austin who needs a waiver to fill the civilian role leading the Pentagon. That's a step some Democrats have historically opposed.

There's particular frustration that, until Tai's nomination, there was no one of Asian descent in a Cabinet-level secretary position. California Rep. Judy Chu, the chair of the Congressional Asian Pacific American Caucus, said she suggested senior roles for Asian Americans during the campaign and transition, only for action to come at the last minute.

One prominent feature of Biden's picks so far: deep ties to the Obama administration. That includes ex-White House chief of staff Denis Mc Donough as secretary of the Department of Veterans Affairs and former U.N. ambassador and national security adviser Susan Rice as director of the White House Domestic Policy Council.

After a largely centrist primary bid won him the Democratic presidential nomination, Biden sought to incorporate more progressive priorities into his general election campaign, promising to invest billions in new green jobs and make major improvements to infrastructure to battle climate change.

But some progressive leaders, including Sens. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., and Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., seem unlikely to land in the Cabinet, given the transition team's concerns about poaching from Democrats' ranks in the Senate. That's left some activists worried that the administration won't live up to its campaign promises to the party's left flank.

Solomon said progressive groups are prepared to organize to try and block the nomination of Biden's pick for director of the Office of Management and Budget, Indian-American Neera Tanden, because of her past antagonism toward Sanders.

They also oppose many of Biden's picks from the Democratic establishment, including incoming senior adviser Cedric Richmond, a Louisiana congressman with close ties to oil and gas companies active in his energy-rich district.

Edited by FluffyMcChicken on Dec 13th 2020 at 1:17:25 AM

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#343313: Dec 13th 2020 at 1:39:18 PM

"But aside from that, I think one of the things I'm looking for, when I see all of these picks together, is: What is the agenda? What is the overall vision going to be?"

That’s the key bit to me (I’ll believe the “progressives are preparing to block X” when it’s got evidence for it and isn’t just speculation), and I feel like AOC is falling into the trap that some many others do, failing to understand that Biden isn’t an ideologue like they are. Biden hasn’t picked a cabinet that pushes a specific niche ideology, because he doesn’t have one to push, he just wants a broad push for progress and things getting better.

Also I’m really tired of the Warren and Sanders speculation, I don’t believe that either of them is so stupid as to think Biden could put them forward for a cabinet position with the senate this tight. If Dems were looking at having 53-55 seats it would be different, but with the senate the way it is they’ll be pushing for other progressives to get in, maybe Pressley for something.

Edited by Silasw on Dec 13th 2020 at 9:40:41 AM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#343314: Dec 13th 2020 at 2:02:07 PM

What's AOC's plan to get more progressive nominees past Evil Turtle in case you don't win the Georgia runoffs?

Even after correcting for polling errors, Biden is more popular than Trump but it looks like the less Democratic Latino trend was not a Florida or Texas thing.

A few years ago anyone predicting "Biden wins thanks to stronger support among whites" in this thread would have been deeme crazy.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#343315: Dec 13th 2020 at 2:12:29 PM

I thought we picked Biden specifically because he appealed better to white people?

Though I think we qualified it as appealing better to working class white people and he only made minimal gains there from what I've read. It was suburban white people where Biden made stronger gains.

Imca (Veteran)
#343316: Dec 13th 2020 at 2:23:13 PM

Not rreally? I mean suburban whites generally want "normality" and non-disruptive.

Trump is a loud boisterous bafoon, he is the antithesis of what they want outside of the racist things... and from a racist perspective he failed to deliver on those too.

Better to just go back to some one who isnt going to fuck with the status quo in there minds.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#343317: Dec 13th 2020 at 2:26:42 PM

I think the bit people didn’t see coming is Trump improving his numbers amongst people of colour, specifically a fair bit amongst Hispanics.

I’d love to see some data on the gender divide amongest Hispanics, we know that the gender divide has been getting worse, it feels like that could be part of how Trump improved his numbers with people of colour.

We know that identifying more heavily with your expected gender role makes you more likely to support Trump, if trend has been increasing amongst people of colour it could explain a fair bit.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#343318: Dec 13th 2020 at 2:51:41 PM

So in scandal news, a former aide of Governor Cuomo's is alleging sexual harassment over her 3 years of working with him - but her unwillingness to talk with reporters makes me a bit suspect, I'll admit.

A former aide to New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo who is now running for Manhattan borough president accused him of sexual harassment in a series of tweets Sunday, saying he made inappropriate comments about her appearance.

Lindsey Boylan tweeted that the Democratic governor “sexually harassed me for years. Many saw it, and watched.”

“I could never anticipate what to expect: would I be grilled on my work (which was very good) or harassed about my looks. Or would it be both in the same conversation? This was the way for years,” she continued.

Boylan, 36, worked for the Cuomo administration from March 2015 to October 2018, serving first as executive vice president of Empire State Development, and then as a special adviser to Cuomo for economic development.

She did not provide details of the alleged harassment and didn’t immediately respond to messages from The Associated Press. Boylan later tweeted, “To be clear: I have no interest in talking to journalists. I am about validating the experience of countless women and making sure abuse stops.”

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
FinestArts Vampire Mouse of Mars from The North Lands Since: Apr, 2020 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Vampire Mouse of Mars
#343319: Dec 13th 2020 at 4:33:17 PM

About the Hispanics thing, I wonder how much of it is worsening of Democrats instead of improvement by Republicans/ Trump. A LOT of Hispanics people are gonna feel a certain type of way about stuff like socialism and Communism, and having people who openly use those terms as self-description is not gonna go over well with many, even if Biden openly disavows that term. And yeah, the gender divide aspect is also one to look at.

The ideology thing is also another big one as well, but can't quite find the words for it.

Edited by FinestArts on Dec 13th 2020 at 7:35:01 AM

superboy313 Since: May, 2015
#343320: Dec 13th 2020 at 4:43:46 PM

Alright, I know people have asked this before but do you think Biden is actually considering running only one term? What with him referring to himself as a "transition" candidate and stuff like that?

Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#343321: Dec 13th 2020 at 4:51:24 PM

I'd imagine so, he is getting quite old and the role as President is already incredibly stressful. He might get to 2024 and be absolute worn out by the role.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#343322: Dec 13th 2020 at 5:00:38 PM

Agreed, I'm counting on Biden being a one term president.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
superboy313 Since: May, 2015
#343323: Dec 13th 2020 at 5:04:51 PM

So who do you think will succeed him? I'm personally hoping it's someone young and exciting like Obama or even JFK.

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#343324: Dec 13th 2020 at 5:08:55 PM

If we're hoping for someone younger, sure. Ideally, we want someone who can use whatever successes Biden can manage to carry the momentum forward and do more with, hopefully, a more firmly blue Congress. If that's what people are hoping for, then I hope we get the Congress seats to make it real. On the other hand, if this is just Progressive Jesus 2024 or Bernie: Third Time's The Charm, then no thanks.

Edited by RedSavant on Dec 13th 2020 at 8:09:12 AM

It's been fun.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#343325: Dec 13th 2020 at 5:29:45 PM

Other than Harris being a major factor in the 2024 primaries, unless something really goes bad for her, it's way too early to speculate.

For what's it worth, I think Sanders needs to pass the torch when it comes to POTUS runs. Between his age and inability to broaden his coalition nearly enough, I doubt he will run again.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

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