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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#343276: Dec 13th 2020 at 10:17:59 AM

Biden isn't even in office yet and people are already getting pissed off that he didn't wave a magic wand and fix all global and economic problems. How dare he acknowledge that the Executive branch doesn't actually have the ability to legislate, and that the President's abilities are very limited when faced with a hostile Senate.

A hostile Judiciary too, just in case anyone actually thinks that he can just start machine gunning Executive Orders out there and the conservative-majority Supreme Court will shrug their shoulders and go, "Hey, not our problem, man."

The President is not an almighty king. He was not a king when Bush was in that office, he was not a king when Obama was in that office, he wasn't even a king when Trump was in that office, and he won't be a king with Biden. He would not be a king if it was Sanders either. The practical reality is that the President of the United States does not control legislation.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 13th 2020 at 10:19:09 AM

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Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#343277: Dec 13th 2020 at 10:18:14 AM

I'm with everyone else on this. I don't see anything wrong with Biden saying he's not going issue executive orders that won't survive Constitutional scrutiny. It's not like he said he won't issue any at all, or work within the boundaries of the executive to get change done.

Biden said he won't do progressive EO's, nowhere has he provided any evidence that they're universally unconstitutional. It is not justified to take his unproven assertion as gospel truth.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#343278: Dec 13th 2020 at 10:19:25 AM

Biden isn't even in office yet and people are already getting pissed off that he didn't wave a magic wand and fix all global and economic problems

Ok. This?

This is a strawman. You literally just invented a position to dismiss smugly.

I am not mad that Biden can't fix everything as President without a friendly Congress, I'm mad that he's not trying to fix some things. Because that's what rejecting progressive EO's does. Choosing to do less than you could.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Dec 13th 2020 at 10:19:33 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#343279: Dec 13th 2020 at 10:22:19 AM

@fourth First of all, I will not stand for having words being put in my mouth. I realize that substituting what people actually say with you imagine they're saying is kinda your thing, but you do not pull that shit with me.

Second, I only said I don't fault him for it. Meaning that I don't hold it against him. So cut the passive-aggressive bullshit.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Dec 13th 2020 at 1:24:53 PM

i'm tired, my friend
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#343280: Dec 13th 2020 at 10:27:15 AM

I think the progressive platform always was a little misleading. Biden is, and always has been, the status quo candidate, the lets-get-everything-back-to-normal guy. That's what people voted for.

They did not vote for progress. They voted to stop Trump, and Biden was the boring centrist to do it.

And now he has defeated Trump, and we are getting into the "what now" phase of his presidency, which will likely involve a lot of crossing the aisle (or trying to) and not rocking the boat in order to return to a state of (real or imagined) normalcy.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#343281: Dec 13th 2020 at 10:27:19 AM

What progressive platform? What progressive promises did he make and which of those could he implement via an EO?

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#343282: Dec 13th 2020 at 10:27:30 AM

"Biden said he won't do progressive EO's, nowhere has he provided any evidence that they're universally unconstitutional."

The very first thing he said was, "So there's some things that I'm going to be able to do by executive order. I’m not going to hesitate to do it."

That doesn't sound like shooting everything down to me. He's pretty clearly saying that there are limits though. Does anyone here really think an EO banning assualt weapons would survive 24 hours?

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#343283: Dec 13th 2020 at 10:29:41 AM

Maybe I'm misreading what Biden said but it seemed to me like what he was suggesting was that certain EO's people might want aren't going to withstand scrutiny by the Supreme Court, which makes them pretty pointless and legally questionable. He gave an example of assault weapons, but there isn't anything in his actual statement that says "ANY progressive measure I will not do through executive orders".

And well, he does kind of have a point that the presidency was never supposed to be the place to unilaterally pass legislation.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#343284: Dec 13th 2020 at 10:32:02 AM

There was a short summary someone here posted several times, does someone still have the link?

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#343285: Dec 13th 2020 at 10:32:44 AM

@fourth First of all, I will not stand for having words being put in my mouth. I realize that substituting what people actually say with you imagine they're saying is kinda your thing, but you do not pull that shit with me

It is in no way "my thing", nor did I do it in this case.

I am responding to the inevitable result of your logic, either we should do something to get around gridlock or we should not. He has chosen to not.

Maybe I'm misreading what Biden said but it seemed to me like what he was suggesting was that certain EO's people might want aren't going to withstand scrutiny by the Supreme Court, which makes them pretty pointless and legally questionable. He gave an example of assault weapons, but there isn't anything in his actual statement that says "ANY progressive measure I will not do through executive orders".

He said that progressives' EO desires are not acceptable to him, it was not a specific response to specific preferences.

"I am not going to violate the Constitution. Executive authority that my progressive friends talk about is way beyond the bounds," is not exactly unclear.

The very first thing he said was, "So there's some things that I'm going to be able to do by executive order. I’m not going to hesitate to do it."

Yes, and by rejecting progressive EO's he is explicitly rejecting doing anything substantive. Minor tinkering is not enough.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Dec 13th 2020 at 10:37:51 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#343286: Dec 13th 2020 at 10:39:58 AM

This is another case of Biden saying something that some people don't like even though, as Drag and others pointed out, he has a good point.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#343287: Dec 13th 2020 at 10:41:11 AM

And the example he gave of an unreasonable EO was one I don't see any fault with. Why issue those as opposed to progressive EO's and policies that can actually stand, or at least they can make a strong defense for in court?

Pendrake That Guy from "Sweet Something of.... Someplace!" (Canada) Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Betrayed by Delilah
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#343289: Dec 13th 2020 at 10:44:33 AM

Let me posit a question: if Biden changed his mind and decided to throw out a bunch of progressive E Os that then are overturned by partisan judges, what then should he do to enact progressive change?

i'm tired, my friend
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#343290: Dec 13th 2020 at 10:45:25 AM

I can agree with the premise that necessary executive orders will never pass the supreme court, though the conclusion I draw from that violates forum rules on doomsaying.

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DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#343291: Dec 13th 2020 at 10:46:30 AM

Work with the legislature, which is what he will end up doing for most things anyway.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
clemont107 Mega Togekiss?! from Land of Missed Opportunities (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Mega Togekiss?!
#343292: Dec 13th 2020 at 10:53:08 AM

What Dems can do as a whole during Biden's presidency is gather support from new recruits and help halt the conservative agenda. This will especially come into handy in 2022 during the midterms.

"Wow, no Mega Togekiss in Legends Z-A. Or any non-Froslass new Sinnoh Mega Evolutions. Round of applause, everybody." - Dawn
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#343293: Dec 13th 2020 at 10:54:52 AM

[up]x2 Hopefully we get these 2 Seats in Georgia. If we do, we can do some things mostly fiscally related. Biden will also be able to get Liberal/Progressive Cabinet Members in without a fuss.

We just really need these 2 seats, or we can kiss any chance of Biden doing much goodbye.

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#343294: Dec 13th 2020 at 10:57:20 AM

Also, hopefully, with items then being allowed to be brought to the debate floor, we can cast the spotlight on the bad-faith filibustering done by republicans to hopefully invite votes against them.

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Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#343295: Dec 13th 2020 at 10:57:48 AM

On the one hand, Biden is in theory only saying that he can't/won't do things outside of his constitutional authority.

On the other hand, that's kind of a given, or at least should be, so bringing that up does give the impression that Biden's tempering expectations in a bad way.

On the third hand, although it is a recording of Biden, the person putting it out is Ryan Grim, who is a pretty bad faith commentator (he was one of the main people behind the Tara Reade allegations).

So, I guess my takeaway is that Biden's comments don't bode well, but I'm inclined to wait and see, in part because Biden hasn't actually taken office yet.

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#343296: Dec 13th 2020 at 11:01:51 AM

Think of it this way... he is encouraging people to vote in the Georgia election.

If you want to get anything done, VOTE, if the Republicans win literally nothing will get done.

Pendrake That Guy from "Sweet Something of.... Someplace!" (Canada) Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Betrayed by Delilah
That Guy
#343297: Dec 13th 2020 at 11:02:09 AM

Exactly.

TBH, it's deal with Corona now, de-escalate tensions, and work for a better political climate in 2022.

Really all that can be reasonably expected.

Kinda sad that over the years, I've seen Americans of all political views just expect and/or assume that things got how they were because of the current/next guy, and forget legislation keeps going even when the last guy was voted out of office. I mean, for instance, Trump took credit for the Economy being stronger due to the legislation Obama and Biden put into the works far earlier on.

Think the best quote i can think of at this point is the Hitchhiker's Guide one: "A president has little real power, their job is to distract from it."

Semper Fi. Semper Paratus. Vigilo Confido.
TheRoguePenguin Since: Jul, 2009
#343298: Dec 13th 2020 at 11:07:19 AM

To take another tack, Biden doing progressive EOs, even if judges shoot them down, does serve a purpose. Republicans have to spend effort fighting them, they have to make that their position in the process, and even if they're shot down Biden can turn around and say "Hey, I'm trying, but it'd really help if you voted in more Democrats to make this easier." If he doesn't, then all people see is a president who's not doing anything for them anyway, and the next, smarter T**** asshole Republican who chooses to run plays the fake populist and we get another 4/8 years of a monster in office.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#343299: Dec 13th 2020 at 11:18:47 AM

As someone who believes in the principles behind our Constitution, I do not accept that governing by executive order is a sustainable situation. Congress is not meant to be deadlocked into eternity such that only the President can make things happen in the country.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TitanJump Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Singularity
#343300: Dec 13th 2020 at 11:22:26 AM

[up] Tell that to Moscow-Mitch Mc Connell who has blocked everything from passing these last number of years...


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