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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#343251: Dec 13th 2020 at 9:37:23 AM

In fairness, getting the Novel Coronavirus dealt with is likely to be his primary focus for most of his presidency anyways. As pissed off as that makes anyone trying to push a political agenda, it honestly is the right move in my eyes.

This is a false narrative, the choice is not "fight Covid 19 or focus on a 'political agenda' (as if Covid isn't political)".

It's "use the powers of the Presidency effectively or don't". Biden has chosen not to.

This is makes fighting Covid-19 harder, and it also makes fighting every other serious issue harder. And those issues haven't disappeared.

Executive orders can be struck down in court. It's trivially easy to issue an injunction against one, since the lower courts are so packed with conservative thugs.

Not even trying is not a reasonable response to this problem. If he makes 100 EO's and 50 survive then that's still better than only doing 20 that has a 100% chance of passing.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Dec 13th 2020 at 9:38:27 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#343252: Dec 13th 2020 at 9:37:42 AM

I may have misinterpreted the text but it seems to me like Biden was just saying "I can't upturn everything single-handedly because that's not how presidency powers work. Temper your expectations if we lose the runoffs.". Which is true.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#343253: Dec 13th 2020 at 9:38:28 AM

Yeah, executive orders are pretty much worthless in the long run, they can be trivially overturned. Biden will have to come up with something else to bring about lasting change.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#343254: Dec 13th 2020 at 9:38:55 AM

I may have misinterpreted the text but it seems to me like Biden was just saying "I can't upturn everything single-handedly because that's not how presidency powers work. Temper your expectations if we lose the runoffs.". Which is true.

He specifically said that he's rejecting progressive EO proposals, which are in no way "upturn everything".

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Dec 13th 2020 at 9:39:47 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#343255: Dec 13th 2020 at 9:39:27 AM

Yeah, executive orders are pretty much worthless in the long run, they can be trivially overturned. Biden will have to come up with something else to bring about lasting change.

Doing nothing is more worthless.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Pendrake That Guy from "Sweet Something of.... Someplace!" (Canada) Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Betrayed by Delilah
That Guy
#343256: Dec 13th 2020 at 9:39:55 AM

Two words, Shiny.

"GLOBAL PANDEMIC."

The Spanish Flu didn't "go away" in a year. And it is going to be ingrained in the public's psyche for probably the next decade.

Semper Fi. Semper Paratus. Vigilo Confido.
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#343257: Dec 13th 2020 at 9:41:28 AM

I'm not saying do nothing, I'm saying that it will not last long term.

Also, Covid is not political.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#343258: Dec 13th 2020 at 9:42:46 AM

[up][up]If it takes more than a year of not directing attention at anything else that also needs done, he’s doing something wrong.

Edited by ShinyCottonCandy on Dec 13th 2020 at 12:42:53 PM

My musician page
Pendrake That Guy from "Sweet Something of.... Someplace!" (Canada) Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Betrayed by Delilah
That Guy
#343259: Dec 13th 2020 at 9:43:31 AM

@redmess: Sadly, Trump's denial of it made it deeply political in the States.

[up]oh, I agree, but my point was more "Will be the focus of his presidency."

Not that it'll be the only thing he does, but it WILL be what he's remembered for. Just like War Presidents.

Edited by Pendrake on Dec 13th 2020 at 9:46:02 AM

Semper Fi. Semper Paratus. Vigilo Confido.
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#343260: Dec 13th 2020 at 9:44:03 AM

It is not very promising. I suppose I was right that he was not as progressive as his platform made him out to be.

[up] I know, but we should not legitimize it by leaning into it and agreeing that it is political.

Edited by Redmess on Dec 13th 2020 at 6:44:51 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#343261: Dec 13th 2020 at 9:45:38 AM

Two words, Shiny.

"GLOBAL PANDEMIC."

The Spanish Flu didn't "go away" in a year. And it is going to be ingrained in the public's psyche for probably the next decade.

~Pendrake I... have no idea who you're arguing against because it clearly isn't me.

Nowhere did I suggest that Covid-19 is going to be a non-issue. But using that to justify Biden kneecapping himself makes no sense. EO's will prove necessary to fight it, and other issues have not stopped existing.

Edit: I realize now that you weren't talking to me, sorry about that.

I'm not saying do nothing, I'm saying that it will not last long term.

Also, Covid is not political.

My point is that unnecessarily refusing to follow progressive EO preferences is defacto doing nothing because he is willfully limiting the avenue of power that will exist regardless of the runoff results.

Yes, it's not as long term as legislation. But if you aren't getting any legislation letting that stop you make absolutely no sense.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Dec 13th 2020 at 10:04:46 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#343262: Dec 13th 2020 at 9:46:40 AM

[up]They were arguing against me. I’m Shiny.

My musician page
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#343263: Dec 13th 2020 at 9:49:43 AM

[up][up] I agree with that, this is overly cautious. And it's what I expected from a centrist like Biden.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#343264: Dec 13th 2020 at 9:55:48 AM

They were arguing against me. I’m Shiny.

Oh, so I guess they literally weren't arguing against me.

lol. Fair enough.

I agree with that, this is overly cautious. And it's what I expected from a centrist like Biden.

Good to hear smile

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Dec 13th 2020 at 9:56:07 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#343265: Dec 13th 2020 at 10:05:14 AM

Reading the article, honestly I can't fault him for what he said. It's true he can EO a bunch of progressive policies, but if a republican president is elected in 2028 or even 2024 and he undoes said policies with E Os and we end up back where we were for the last four years, then what? Elect a progressive who will do the same thing? At that point you're just playing basketball with the Executive Branch.

And that's if conservative judges don't go "nah fuck that" and overturn them.

Easily undone and overturn able, Biden doesn't seem to see much value on E Os beyond undoing Trump's fuckery (which he also said he would still do, so uh, not exactly doing nothing there), and frankly I'm inclined to agree. If Biden did try to EO America into a progressive era and judges tell him to eat shit, "at least he tried" isn't going to give me any comfort.

i'm tired, my friend
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#343266: Dec 13th 2020 at 10:08:52 AM

For the record, this is what Biden actually said:

"So there's some things that I'm going to be able to do by executive order. I'm not going to hesitate to do it, but what I'm not going to do is I'm not going to do what used to - Vanita [Gupta], you probably used to get angry with me during the debates, when you'd have some of the people you were supporting saying, 'On Day 1, I'm gonna have an executive order to do this!' Not within the constitutional authority. I am not going to violate the Constitution. Executive authority that my progressive friends talk about is way beyond the bounds. And as one of you said, maybe it was you, Reverend Al [Sharpton], whether it's far left or far right, there is a Constitution. It's our only hope. Our only hope and the way to deal with it is, where I have executive authority, I will use it to undo every single damn thing this guy has done by executive authority, but I'm not going to exercise executive authority where it's a question, where I can come along and say, 'I can do away with assault weapons.' There's no executive authority to do away that. And no one has fought harder to get rid of assault weapons than me, me, but you can't do it by executive order. We do that, next guy comes along and says, Well, guess what? By executive order, I guess everybody can have machine guns again. So we gotta be careful."

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#343267: Dec 13th 2020 at 10:09:31 AM

[up][up]So instead of doing something for four years and it possibly getting overwritten we should... do nothing?

That logic makes no sense.

EO's could be the difference between doing something to fight Climate Change and doing nothing, same with every other major issue that we face. By preemptively surrendering to it Biden is demonstrating that he is exactly as spinless and ineffective as all his left-wing critics claimed.

We can do something or we can do nothing, he has chosen nothing.

[up]Yes, it's shameful. That he's trying to pretty it up with bullshit that makes it look like a principled stand doesn't make the harmful consequences any less real.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Dec 13th 2020 at 10:10:51 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
clemont107 Mega Togekiss?! from Land of Missed Opportunities (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Mega Togekiss?!
#343268: Dec 13th 2020 at 10:11:42 AM

[up][up]He has a point. In the (god-forbid) scenario where another far-right dictator-wannabee becomes president, if Biden uses too many executive orders, THAT man would use Biden's case as an excuse to do much more harm than T*** ever could using EOs.

Edited by clemont107 on Dec 13th 2020 at 1:12:12 PM

"Wow, no Mega Togekiss in Legends Z-A. Or any non-Froslass new Sinnoh Mega Evolutions. Round of applause, everybody." - Dawn
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#343269: Dec 13th 2020 at 10:13:20 AM

And if he does do something* and fails the result is the same.

*something the reader personally wants him to do, rather than what he already said he would do

[up]this one gets it

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Dec 13th 2020 at 1:14:59 PM

i'm tired, my friend
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#343270: Dec 13th 2020 at 10:13:35 AM

[up][up]Why would the next Trump even feel the need to bother with using precedent as an excuse?

Edited by ShinyCottonCandy on Dec 13th 2020 at 1:13:46 PM

My musician page
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#343271: Dec 13th 2020 at 10:14:11 AM

Biden isn't disappointing me because I don't expect much more from Biden than that. He didn't run on a progressive agenda, he ran on a centrist one, with some progressive overtones, and won. I do look forward to seeing how he expects to deal with global warming, job creation, police reform, and international relations. I am hopeful that we can see some progress, not just undoing the damage that Trump caused. But complaining because Biden says he isn't going to do what he didn't say he was going to do seems unrealistic.

The answer here is to keep the pressure on with protests and midterm elections.

Edited by DeMarquis on Dec 13th 2020 at 1:14:39 PM

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#343272: Dec 13th 2020 at 10:15:22 AM

We've already seen this happen with Obama, whose progress has been systematically wiped away by Trump. Do we really want another repeat of that? We clearly need more than an over-reliance on E Os.

[up] He absolutely ran on a progressive agenda, see his progressive platform. But I agree he is not as progressive as that platform made him out to be.

Edited by Redmess on Dec 13th 2020 at 7:16:36 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#343273: Dec 13th 2020 at 10:15:37 AM

He has a point. In the (god-forbid) scenario where another far-right dictator-wannabee becomes president, if Biden uses too many executive orders, THAT man would use Biden's case as an excuse to do much more harm than T*** ever could using E Os.

You think not using EO's will stop Republicans from attacking democracy? That assumption is profoundly, and baselessly, optimistic.

And if he does do something* and fails the result is the same.

"Failure is possible so why even try"

Wow, this is an incredible argument.

I'm not being sarcastic I am legitimately floored that this is the argument you think paints Biden in a good light.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Dec 13th 2020 at 10:16:39 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#343274: Dec 13th 2020 at 10:16:10 AM

I'm with everyone else on this. I don't see anything wrong with Biden saying he's not going issue executive orders that won't survive Constitutional scrutiny. It's not like he said he won't issue any at all, or work within the boundaries of the executive to get change done.

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#343275: Dec 13th 2020 at 10:17:33 AM

[up][up][up]I agree that we need more in that the executive orders are just a bandage, but when you’re rapidly bleeding out you gotta at least put on the bandage until you can get real treatment.

My musician page

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