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Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

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In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#343151: Dec 12th 2020 at 3:03:44 PM

I know a number of people encouraging Republicans to boycott the Georgia election are just Democrats trolling. Not sure how effective it is though.
Depends on if the Republicans know they're Democrats. If they don't, it may work. If they do, they'll crawl through broken glass to vote to own the libs.

Edited by sgamer82 on Dec 12th 2020 at 3:04:05 AM

RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#343153: Dec 12th 2020 at 3:39:59 PM

Is the Hive Mind finally breaking down?

ASAB: All Sponsors Are Bad.
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#343154: Dec 12th 2020 at 3:42:22 PM

These are probably the same people who decry Mitch McConnell as a RINO (yes, Mitch McConnell as a Rino, you read that right!) for turning on Roy Moore.

They really are that crazy.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
superboy313 Since: May, 2015
#343155: Dec 12th 2020 at 3:47:57 PM

I've said it before and I'll say it again: We could be seeing the GOP split into two different parties.

Resileafs I actually wanted to be Resileaf Since: Jan, 2019
I actually wanted to be Resileaf
#343156: Dec 12th 2020 at 3:48:20 PM

That's basically the party eating itself that I expected. Let them fight for our enjoyment!

superboy313 Since: May, 2015
#343157: Dec 12th 2020 at 3:52:24 PM

Hopefully after it's burned to the ground, Republicans with morals and principles like Mitt Romney can rebuild the party from scratch.

Because frankly, I don't think having a single dominant political party is good for democracy.

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#343158: Dec 12th 2020 at 3:53:54 PM

Romney only looks principled by comparison.

Perseus Since: Nov, 2009
#343159: Dec 12th 2020 at 3:54:01 PM

That's giving Romney entirely too much credit, tbh.

WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#343160: Dec 12th 2020 at 3:57:32 PM

I could see a split at like, a national level, with one Trump-like character running for president as a third party candidate in 2024, but I find it unlikely that we're going to see a bunch of hypothetical pro-Trump third party candidates running for the House or the Senate, or running for Governor.

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#343161: Dec 12th 2020 at 4:00:45 PM

I’d rather the Democratic party split between the moderates and progressives.

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Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#343162: Dec 12th 2020 at 4:02:15 PM

[up]That would give the presidency to the republicans unless their party had already become totally politically irrelevant on a national level which isn't happening anytime soon.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Dec 12th 2020 at 9:02:25 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#343163: Dec 12th 2020 at 4:06:08 PM

No, this is not going to be The Thing that fractures the GOP and renders all Republicans politically irrevelant forevermore. At least, not any more than any instance of an establishment or progressive Dem making a comment against the other side of the party is going to be The Thing that fractures the Democrats and renders all liberals politically irrelevant forevermore.

Democrats and Republicans both need to stop enthusiastically gravedancing any time the other side experiences even a moment of internal conflict. Donald Trump is not going to bring about the end of the Republican Party, and AOC is not going to bring about the end of the Democratic Party. We'll all be right back here in two years fighting out the midterms.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 12th 2020 at 4:08:47 AM

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ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#343164: Dec 12th 2020 at 4:14:31 PM

[up][up]Sorry, I should have clarified that I was responding to the hypothetical premise of what to do if the GOP was already rendered irrelevant as a party.

Edited by ShinyCottonCandy on Dec 12th 2020 at 7:17:06 AM

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Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#343165: Dec 12th 2020 at 4:17:18 PM

No, this is not going to be The Thing that fractures the GOP and renders all Republicans politically irrevelant forevermore. At least, not any more than any instance of an establishment or progressive Dem making a comment against the other side of the party is going to be The Thing that fractures the Democrats and renders all liberals politically irrelevant forevermore.

Yeah, at most it could cause them to lose the runoffs in Georgia.

Which would still be pretty great, it's close enough that even if 1% of their base stays home it could prove decisive. Getting the opportunity to possibly eliminate the filibuster could finally let us work on implementing some desperately needed change.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#343166: Dec 12th 2020 at 4:19:09 PM

More importantly, not having every last permanent appointment blocked.

FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#343167: Dec 12th 2020 at 4:39:35 PM

There seems to be growing concern among liberal newspapers about how the pandemic ironically seems to be giving the California Republicans one opportunity after another to rebound from their repeated defeats by the CA Dems, who mysteriously keep blundering into one optics fiasco after another.

Washington Post: Opinion - California's Democratic dominance may soon prove deadly

As of Sunday, most Californians are under strict stay-at-home orders. Gov. Gavin Newsom's (D) lockdown shutters businesses, bars and cultural centers; makes restaurants takeout-only; and sends religious services outdoors. Gatherings with people in other households are banned - through Christmas.

That's a lot for authorities to ask - especially when they appear so out of touch with the people they're trying to govern.

Many residents are furious over being asked to make sacrifices that state and local officials themselves won't. Newsom is by now notorious for his minimum $350-a-plate meal at the ultra-elite French Laundry in violation of his own guidance to Californians, exacerbated by his lie claiming the meal followed outdoor distancing policies.

The mayor of San Francisco, London Breed, had her own coronavirus-noncompliant dinner at the same tony venue. Los Angeles County Supervisor Sheila Kuehl was spotted dining alfresco at an Italian restaurant in Santa Monica not long after voting to ban outdoor dining for her 12 million fellow Angelenos. San Jose's mayor had to apologize after traveling to his parents' house for a Thanksgiving dinner in violation of state requirements. When five state lawmakers were busted dining out in Sacramento this week by a reporter, one asked, "Can we not have dinner?" before pulling his mask out of his pocket.

Why are these officials so flagrantly violating rules they expect their own voters to follow? Is it arrogance? Delusion? Indifference? All of the above?

Perhaps. But I have another theory: The tone-deafness is what comes from living in a bubble where political competition is scant. In California, Democratic voters outnumber Republicans nearly 2-1. Only two Republicans have won statewide office since 2000. Newsom, Breed and Kuehl received 62 percent, 71 percent and 76 percent of the vote, respectively, in their last races.

In other words, it is precisely because California is so heavily Democratic that Democratic officials don't feel the need to be responsive to their constituents. But there is mounting evidence that even in this one-party state, voters are no longer unquestioningly swallowing what their leadership is feeding them.

In the case of the pandemic crackdown, residents are mounting resistance to lawmakers' hypocrisy. One county plans to challenge Newsom's covid-19 policies in court. Cities are exploring forming their own public health departments to avoid county-level restrictions. Sheriffs are refusing to enforce state curfews. Business owners are planning open rebellion.

This year's ballot initiatives, too, should raise alarms, as measures that Democratic tail winds should ordinarily have swept to victory instead went down to surprising defeat. One was Proposition 15, which sought to hike commercial property taxes, ostensibly to fund public schools (the state's teachers' union spent $20 million trying to push the measure through). Proposition 16, meanwhile, would have reinstated the use of affirmative action in California public university admissions and public sector hiring.

Both measures enjoyed overwhelming support from progressive activists, state Democratic elected officials and Newsom. And both should have benefited from anti-Trump turnout. But Prop. 15 received nearly 2.9 million fewer votes statewide than President-elect Joe Biden did. Prop. 16 trailed Biden by almost 3.9 million votes.

Newsom and state Democratic leaders were also embarrassed by Proposition 22. In September 2019, Assembly Bill 5 - a law mandating that companies treat "gig workers," such as Uber and Lyft drivers, like full-time employees - passed easily in the overwhelmingly Democratic state legislature, with a 29-11 vote in the state Senate and a 61-16 vote in the Assembly. The measure was eagerly signed into law by Newsom. Then Prop. 22 took the matter to voters, who decisively rejected their Democratic overlords - 59 percent to 41 percent.

These measures failed, in part, because their Democratic champions were clueless about where voters actually were on the issues. Prop. 15, for example, rested its hopes on an ambitious media blitz featuring teachers railing against corporate loopholes that allegedly deny schools deserved money. But at a time when shuttered schools and substandard virtual learning are shortchanging millions of California kids, was a plea for sympathy for teachers' unions a wise tactic?

These rebukes point to an unsettling phenomenon. Because relatively little is demanded of them, California's elected leaders have an easy time getting elected, but haven't yet mastered the part that comes after - leading.

Newsom, for example, was nurtured, educated and sent up the political ladder in a deep-blue range from Marin County to the southern end of Silicon Valley - coasting from one Democratic-friendly post to another, never having to develop shrewd professional and personal judgment. He and his fellow state and local lawmakers apparently still need to master the arts of convincing and persuading, of finding the right policies that appeal to broad coalitions, of being the role models they expect voters to follow.

In a few months, the embarrassments of failed ballot propositions will probably have faded. But in the case of the covid-19 resistance, Democratic officials' alienation from their voters could prove deadly. If there's a silver lining to the crisis, maybe it will be that it finally prompts complacent politicians such as Newsom to look beyond their own whims to what their voters actually want and need.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#343168: Dec 12th 2020 at 4:59:41 PM

So I was watching the pilot of The Critic out of some sense of morbid curiosity. And there was a joke about this model having dated Donald Trump.

Goddarnit. Can't even escape the guy watching a 26 year old cartoon. grin

Terrible show, would not recommend.

Edited by Redmess on Dec 12th 2020 at 1:59:51 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#343169: Dec 12th 2020 at 5:20:08 PM

Sadly, Trump was kind of the world's shorthand for "rich idiot" for years, and most's idea of a rich guy in general.

Wake me up at your own risk.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#343170: Dec 12th 2020 at 5:20:52 PM

Cody's Showdy actually made a two-hour feature film about the fact that we've known, since the 1980's, that Donald Trump was a cartoon supervillain. Any writer who wanted to teach children what the evils of unchecked greed looked like would just slap a likeness of Trump's face into their story, because we all knew that Trump was the most reprehensible scumbag around.

And also about the fact that we've have spent literal decades of pop culture media acknowledging that our political and economic leadership are steadily destroying the world and will not stop. The messages carried in our media have shifted from "The world is doomed; let's do something to fix it," to "The world is doomed; try to be one of the lucky bastards who gets out alive!"

Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 12th 2020 at 5:22:50 AM

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nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#343171: Dec 12th 2020 at 5:22:24 PM

Current state of the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact: 196 Electoral votes, with it being likely that they lose a few during reapportionment. AP News

Democratic trifecta states that haven't passed it: Virginia, Maine, Nevada.

"It's an old, ugly mess that frankly should have been obviated some time ago," said Virginia House of Delegates member Mark Levine, a Democrat who introduced a bill that would have Virginia sign on to the National Popular Vote movement. It would compel member states to award their electoral votes to the winner of the nationwide popular vote.

Levine’s measure passed the Virginia House earlier this year. Passage by the Senate would bring the movement 13 electoral votes closer to its goal.

So far, 15 states and the District of Columbia have signed on.

For presidential candidates, 270 represents the number of Electoral College votes needed to secure a win. The move toward a national popular vote also is aiming for that magic number. It already has secured 196 and aims to gain more next year. Advocates hope, perhaps unrealistically, that it will be in place by the next presidential election in 2024.


National Popular Vote, the group pushing the compact, is focusing in 2021 on Virginia and eight other states: Arizona, Arkansas, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, North Carolina and Oklahoma. The initiative has made progress in those states by passing at least one legislative chamber, but didnt clear the finish line, spokesman Patrick Rosenstiel said.


If the movement to change the system reaches the 270 threshold, those supporters might sue on constitutional grounds. The Constitution says Congress must consent to interstate compacts. However, the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that some compacts don't require congressional consent.

"We believe Supreme Court precedents indicate that this additional step is not needed," National Popular Vote Chairman John Koza said in an interview. "Nonetheless, National Popular Vote is working to obtain support for the compact in Congress."

And then there's this frustrating bit:

Over a decade ago, when President Barack Obama, a Democrat, was in office, it was at times a reverse partisan issue, Koza said.

A national popular vote measure, for example, passed the Republican-controlled New York Senate back then, but didn’t get through the Democrat-controlled Assembly.

"This is an issue that people have a very short-term partisan way of looking at, and the Democrats felt that they had a lock on the White House," Koza said.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#343172: Dec 12th 2020 at 5:28:41 PM

People have a frustratingly short-term way of looking at a lot of things in governance. It's frankly amazing, given the sheer length of American elections, how quick we are to forget that these are not permanent positions; there will be another one right around the corner.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#343173: Dec 12th 2020 at 5:30:26 PM

[up][up][up] I remember as a kid there was this Sesame Street special where some rich guy was going to buy up Sesame Street and turn it into a hotel. As an adult I looked it up on the internet and found it was called Sesame Street All-Star 25th Birthday: Stars and Street Forever. The rich guy's name? Ronald Grump. Also, there was a Biker Mice From Mars reboot/continuation in 2006 where they added a new character, a villain called Ronaldo Rump. Best Part? He was Hispanic. So, Trump being evil is a thing even in stuff aimed at children.

Edited by WillKeaton on Dec 12th 2020 at 6:33:44 AM

thok That's Dr. Title, thank you! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Non-Canon
That's Dr. Title, thank you!
#343174: Dec 12th 2020 at 5:36:45 PM

Trumplica is a trope for a reason, people.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#343175: Dec 12th 2020 at 5:37:44 PM

That show having a henchman who literally sweated motor oil makes that extra hilarious after Giuliani's meltdown.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times

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