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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#342876: Dec 10th 2020 at 4:52:42 PM

I think Obama and Biden were wrong as anyone who was against the Democrats were going to accuse them of hating the police anyway. The people who supported Trump were always going to.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#342877: Dec 10th 2020 at 5:04:50 PM

I know leftists hate the word "optics" but one thing that got the Right to where they are used to be knowing which parts to say out loud.

  • Undecided: So the Right said you guys are all looters, drug dealers, rapists, and thieves. I think I heard something about a Satanic pedophile cult too? That can't be right. So I wanted to pop over, hear what you're about.
  • Left: Okay, hear me out: what if there weren't cops?
  • Undecided: Oh! That, uh, that's really what you're going with?
  • Left: The Right thinks cops are a good thing. Vote for me and I'll get rid of cops.
  • Undecided: Okay, then. I think I've heard all I need.
  • Left: They're crooks too, by the way. We're bad, but they're worse. We're a lesser evil.
  • Right: No, we're not! We're the good guys, totes. The left are crooks.
  • Left: The left are crooks! Horrible crooks! But not as bad as the right!
  • Right: Support the police and vote for us! We'll arrest the crooks!
  • Left: Not if we get rid of cops!

To say Democrats have a messaging problem is an understatement.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#342878: Dec 10th 2020 at 5:06:41 PM

If "Defund the Police" is indeed a policy that people want to implement, it will need to be sold to the general public. And if being associated with it did indeed harm the Democrats, then it's a problem. So while I'm also concerned about diluting the necessary reforms, I can also understand why Democrats aren't fans of the idea. I mean, sure, high risk, high reward, but sometimes the risk really is just too great.

Oh God! Natural light!
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#342879: Dec 10th 2020 at 5:13:45 PM

It's mostly just a question of framing, really. You could easily emphasize that the police are currently overworked and sent to handle situations that they are not properly trained to handle, which is true anyway, and thusly it is a good idea to fund programs and institutions that will take over some of those duties. In fact I believe some states are already implementing some of this, like New York which is not sending police to handle mental health crises anymore.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Dec 10th 2020 at 10:14:18 AM

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#342880: Dec 10th 2020 at 5:14:30 PM

[up][up] The policy isn't the problem, the slogan is.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#342881: Dec 10th 2020 at 5:17:54 PM

Right. Defunding and/or outright abolishing the police is the scary part of the policy. Even if it's the goal (which it basically is, since everyone who actually understands what it's about agrees that cops are causing a lot of problems), it shouldn't be placed front-and-center as the movement's public mission statement.

Once you explain to someone what it actually means, it's a great thing! But if you have to explain what it means before people can support it, it's a bad slogan. Eliminating or dramatically reducing the police is the quiet part, but the movement came right out of the gate screaming the quiet part to everyone who will listen.

Don't sell the goal. The goal is scary in a vacuum. Sell the positive steps that will reach the goal.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 10th 2020 at 5:18:56 AM

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RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#342882: Dec 10th 2020 at 5:37:11 PM

Why would there be at least four years of no executions being carried out at all? Did Biden make a particular promise I'm not aware of?

Also the post I linked noticed that Biden's current stated position is opposition to the Death Penalty and Kamala Harris has been against it even when a prosecutor.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#342883: Dec 10th 2020 at 5:44:01 PM

Frankly, I think action is needed on the police as did a massive amount of America's population during a horrifying pandemic.

The police need to be struck back at.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#342884: Dec 10th 2020 at 5:46:46 PM

I seem to distinctly recall having this argument over whether or not it's a good slogan back in the Summer. Lo and behold, it happened exactly as predicted.

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#342885: Dec 10th 2020 at 5:49:36 PM

Abolish the police became defund the police, but now people want to change it even further to dilute the message. Where will the slogan end up before centrists are comfortable with it? "The police make accidents sometimes but that's okay"?

The Slate article I posted last page pointed out that "reduce funding" was received more positively than "abolish" and "redirect" even more so. So the slogan can end up about 7 letters different to be more effective.

I'd say they just started out with the stupidest wording possible. I don't know what people were thinking when they came up with them.

I do. They were thinking they were pissed, angry, and wanted justice. Of course people were going to latch on to whatever sounded like it expressed what they were feeling. Moral of the story: Don't make slogans while angry.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#342886: Dec 10th 2020 at 5:55:25 PM

An angry slogan only works if the majority of people are just as angry as you were when you made that slogan.

Of course, a slogan that only appeals to people who already think like you isn't a particularly good slogan.

Edited by M84 on Dec 10th 2020 at 9:56:28 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#342888: Dec 10th 2020 at 6:16:47 PM

Is there any evidence, though, that 'defund the police' made people less likely to vote for Democrats? No Democrat ran on defunding the police, AFAIK, though some were more positive toward more radical reforms.


EDIT: I saw this on Twitter and wanted to make sure it was legit, but this is from a press release from her government website: Link

Today, Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (HI-02) and Rep. Markwayne Mullin (OK-02) introduced H.R.8932, the Protect Women's Sports Act. Given the average difference in abilities conferred by biological sex, this bill would clarify Title IX protections for female athletes is based on biological sex.


Title IX was designed to give women and girls an equal chance to succeed, including in sports. Allowing biological males to compete in women's sports diminishes that equality and takes away from the original intent of Title IX.

Edited by nova92 on Dec 10th 2020 at 6:23:01 AM

ScubaWolf from South Carolina Since: Feb, 2020
#342889: Dec 10th 2020 at 6:23:31 PM

[up] Those scum!

"In a move surprising absolutely no one"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#342891: Dec 10th 2020 at 6:24:50 PM

Yeah, about what I expected from Gabbard.

Disgusted, but not surprised
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#342892: Dec 10th 2020 at 6:25:28 PM

That’s not likely to make it through the House, is it?

My musician page
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#342893: Dec 10th 2020 at 6:27:48 PM

They didn't learn anything of the Civil War. They'll just either chicken out or slapped into sense if they try to get this through.

Wake me up at your own risk.
nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#342894: Dec 10th 2020 at 6:28:01 PM

[up][up] No, its chances of passing are infinitesimal, but it's still incredibly awful that she's sponsoring this bill.


[up][up][up][up] Doesn't a segment of Texas Republicans threaten to secede on the regular?

Edited by nova92 on Dec 10th 2020 at 6:28:31 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#342895: Dec 10th 2020 at 6:29:03 PM

I seem to distinctly recall having this argument over whether or not it's a good slogan back in the Summer. Lo and behold, it happened exactly as predicted.

I find it hard to take Obama's claim it changed anyone's minds on the Democrat's seriously. It reeks of them seeking a scapegoat for their losses.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Perseus Since: Nov, 2009
#342896: Dec 10th 2020 at 6:32:06 PM

It's still a shitty slogan either way.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#342897: Dec 10th 2020 at 6:40:44 PM

Any suggestions on alternatives other than **** the Police?

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#342898: Dec 10th 2020 at 6:42:02 PM

[up] "Don't Tread on Me", but it will require trying to take it back from Right-wing Extremists and Neo-Nazis.

"End Police Violence", bit on the nose but it works.

RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#342899: Dec 10th 2020 at 6:51:46 PM

"End Police Violence", bit on the nose but it works.

The conservatives will probably interpret this as "But if cops aren't violent, they can't enforce the law!" Then again, these people will grasp at any advantage and manipulate it.

ASAB: All Sponsors Are Bad.
Alycus Since: Apr, 2018

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