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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#342501: Dec 8th 2020 at 8:27:41 AM

Hot take but I don't think syncretism is inherently evil, and that seems to have been what actually happened there.

Also Christmas as we know it only got as big as it did because of Dickens and the English, who then built upon Scandinavian traditions. It's far more of an ethnically Germanic holiday with token religious origins, than a properly Christian one.

As a strict lifelong atheist from a non-European cultural background, it's for that reason that I kind of like Christmas over some of the more overtly religious holidays during that time. Because I like the opportunity to spend time with my family and gather around to look at the shiny lights and wintery sights.

Edited by AlleyOop on Dec 8th 2020 at 11:46:57 AM

RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#342502: Dec 8th 2020 at 8:27:45 AM

Fellow Atheist celebrating Xmas holidays here. I say let people celebrate what they wish to. Even if most of society leans towards one type, I'd rather not waste my energy dictating who's in the right so long as everybody behaves themselves and tries to see the glass half-full (which is rare coming from a grouch like myself). I'd rather not have the devout Christians try to go for an arm when they're given a hand, and others of other faiths going out of their way to tear it down.

I really doubt Xmas is going out of its way to supersede all other traditions; I feel like it just happened to be there because some holiday was going to end up on top.

Edited by RainingMetal on Dec 8th 2020 at 11:29:20 AM

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#342503: Dec 8th 2020 at 8:30:14 AM

I, a non-Jewish person, think Hannukah looks pretty cool.

This does not make Hannukah stop being a Jewish holiday. In the same way, the existence of non-Christian people celebrating Christmas does not make Christmas stop being a Christian holiday - especially when many of those non-Christian people do so because of a Christian upbringing. Christianity has a lot of influence on atheists because many atheists were born into Christianity and stopped believing.

A term I've heard thrown around before is Christian Atheism: "I don't believe in God, but the God I don't believe in is specifically Jehova." There are a lot of atheists who don't want the religious trappings of the holiday they grew up with, but still want to have the cool party with the presents and the tree that's familiar to them.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 8th 2020 at 8:31:56 AM

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DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#342504: Dec 8th 2020 at 8:31:53 AM

[up] The point was more that the way Christmas is publicly celebrated has little to do with Christianity.

You know, the parts of Christmas people often find annoying or obnoxious.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Dec 8th 2020 at 5:32:07 PM

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
PointMaid Since: Jun, 2014
#342505: Dec 8th 2020 at 8:34:47 AM

I don't think you're getting the point he was making.

I don't think it's really about trying to foist actually Christian ideas on people, although some sure seem to want to do that. It's not about privately celebrating Christmas, whatever your persuasion. It's about apparently assuming that everyone, everywhere, celebrates Christmas (which would not be around even in consumerist form if not for Christianity) and therefore tacitly assuming everyone is Christian.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#342506: Dec 8th 2020 at 8:34:52 AM

[up][up]The way Christmas is celebrated has nothing to do with how Christian it is. The commodification of the holiday does absolutely nothing to tarnish the religious significance, because the real point of the holiday was never religious significance, the real point of the holiday was always to aid Christianity in consuming all other religions.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Dec 8th 2020 at 9:36:05 AM

Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#342507: Dec 8th 2020 at 8:35:34 AM

@Pushovermediacritic: All sorts of faiths have total conversion of the world as their goal and label themselves as "The One True Way". The American Conservative Christians are very annoying and way too powerful, but taking a day off on their Holiday is not the same thing as praying that all will bow down to Jesus.

@Pointmad: That I'll agree with. Christmas does take up too much place in public culture.

Edited by Wildcard on Dec 8th 2020 at 11:36:35 AM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#342508: Dec 8th 2020 at 8:35:49 AM

If people wanted to complain about Christmas promoting Nordicism or capitalism, then it'd make more sense than Christian domination. Because unless you live in an openly evangelical environment, you don't really see it.

I grew up surrounded by passionate Catholics and the occasional evangelical Protestant and the Christ part of Christmas was never really highlighted in my experience to the point I had no idea it was supposed to be about religion and not Santa until I was a good while older.

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Everyone's friend Malamar
#342509: Dec 8th 2020 at 8:36:05 AM

[up][up][up]Isn't that more a problem with capitalism, or more specificially corporatism?

Edited by ShinyCottonCandy on Dec 8th 2020 at 11:36:22 AM

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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#342510: Dec 8th 2020 at 8:37:45 AM

@Wildcard Judaism doesn't. Judaism specifically does not want everyone else in the world to be Jewish, converting people is not a priority anywhere in the Torah. Same goes for a lot of religions, the religion most focused on converting everyone is Christianity.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#342511: Dec 8th 2020 at 8:39:45 AM

Guys, we have a religion thread, take this convo there, please.

Edited by HailMuffins on Dec 8th 2020 at 1:40:58 PM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#342512: Dec 8th 2020 at 8:40:24 AM

Christianity, Islam, certain sects of Buddhism. Etc. There's nothing inherent in Christianity that makes it particularly unique, evil, or unusually virulent. There just happened to be a confluence of material factors to sustain whatever more virulent strains that happen to be within it longer before its inevitable collapse relative to comparable equivalents in other religions elsewhere. Likewise things like ISIS and radical Islamic terrorism are similarly the result of external factors coming together, as opposed to being because that's just how Islam is.

And it really depends on where and when in the religion you are, as it could be argued that a lot of Christian expansionism phased out the intent to convert in the name of mundane imperialism, and Islam has gone through its own phases of aggressive militaristic conquest specifically for the sake of spreading their religion, as has Buddhism. Meanwhile the original Jewish kingdoms described in the Bible had their share of conquest and religious classism, to the point that their lack of desire to convert was more for the practical purpose of consolidating power amongst the in-group than magnanimity or implicit moral kindness.

Edited by AlleyOop on Dec 8th 2020 at 12:06:42 PM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#342513: Dec 8th 2020 at 8:40:24 AM

[up][up]Totally fair, this got way off-track, sorry, I didn't mean for it to go this direction and I'm sorry for continuing it.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Dec 8th 2020 at 9:42:43 AM

RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#342514: Dec 8th 2020 at 8:45:20 AM

I think we can all agree that what Melania said isn't what most people think of when it comes to the term "Fuck Christmas". Because in most cases, it's due to understandable Hype Backlash when it comes to other faiths and traditions. Melania's just being a lazy cow.

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nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#342515: Dec 8th 2020 at 8:47:21 AM

NPR has a nice list of current Biden picks for key positions in the White House and in the various federal agencies. It gives a quick description of the position, whether they would need confirmation by the Senate, and a short bio of the nominee. Nice to have all of the info in one place.


Also, the Arizona GOP just went completely off the rails AZ Central

The Arizona Republican Party has asked its followers if they are willing to die for the cause of overturning the presidential election results, eliciting alarm and criticism in response.

The party's official Twitter account on Monday night shared a post from Ali Alexander, an activist with an organization called "Stop the Steal" that has protested election results.

"I am willing to give my life for this fight," Alexander wrote. When sharing the post, the GOP asked followers: "He is. Are you?"

The GOP then posted a clip from the movie "Rambo", highlighting the quote: “This is what we do, who we are. Live for nothing, or die for something.”

I guess that's what comes of making Kelli Ward your chairperson.

Edited by nova92 on Dec 8th 2020 at 8:49:22 AM

TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#342516: Dec 8th 2020 at 8:49:50 AM

I feel we're veering way off topic here. Edit: [nja] on getting back on topic.

Back to the Texas lawsuit - it has little chance of succeeding, but what concerns me is this painting the issue as being state versus state. I've already seen plenty of "God bless Texas" responses to the lawsuit online, and the ramifications for future elections are a little...troubling.

Voter provincialism is a real danger going forward, even if in the short term it's more likely to hinder the unity of the Republicans.

Edited by TotemicHero on Dec 8th 2020 at 11:50:37 AM

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#342517: Dec 8th 2020 at 8:59:43 AM

[up][up]As someone who lives in Arizona, that's fucking terrifying.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#342518: Dec 8th 2020 at 9:01:02 AM

In before they claim their accounts were haxxored,get the screenshots ready in case they do

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Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#342519: Dec 8th 2020 at 9:14:21 AM

I do have one minor thing to add to the White House thing:

How many people working in the White House do you think voted for Biden?

clemont107 Mega Togekiss?! from Land of Missed Opportunities (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Mega Togekiss?!
#342520: Dec 8th 2020 at 9:33:09 AM

[up]Depends on whether you're talking about low-level interns or people like Stephen Miller.

"Wow, no Mega Togekiss in Legends Z-A. Or any non-Froslass new Sinnoh Mega Evolutions. Round of applause, everybody." - Dawn
RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#342521: Dec 8th 2020 at 9:37:12 AM

Maybe a more appropriate question would be how many people are still employed in the White House?

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nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#342522: Dec 8th 2020 at 9:42:34 AM

DC went ~95-5 for Biden, and combined with the awful way most of them were treated, I'd imagine a good chunk of the non-political workers - janitors, housekeepers, low-level staff wouldn't vote for Trump.

Edited by nova92 on Dec 8th 2020 at 9:42:48 AM

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#342523: Dec 8th 2020 at 9:45:15 AM

And at this point, probably most of the Secret Service wouldn't either.

Edited by Blueace on Dec 8th 2020 at 2:54:22 PM

Wake me up at your own risk.
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#342524: Dec 8th 2020 at 10:58:10 AM

Republicans on Inaugural Committee Reject Motion Recognizing Biden as President-Elect What the fuck. These people are doing everything they can to undermine Biden even before he takes office.

Edited by speedyboris on Dec 8th 2020 at 10:59:23 AM

TitanJump Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Singularity
#342525: Dec 8th 2020 at 11:00:06 AM

[up] They gave up any notion of hiding their contempt for democracy the moment they fell in line behind Donald Trump.

They have been emboldened to the point that they now genuinely believe they can turn the US into a Autocracy and get away with it.


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