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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CookingCat Since: Jul, 2018
#342351: Dec 7th 2020 at 5:14:21 AM

[up][up] Can Biden just change the tests back to the old ones?

djkates (Oldest One in the Book)
#342352: Dec 7th 2020 at 5:36:07 AM

[up] I'd hope so. Tests for citizenship should have one purpose only — showing whether a prospective citizen has gained an appropriate amount of the knowledge necessary to be a properly functioning citizen of a country. So, for example, questions about what rights a citizen of the United States would have are appropriate (though the list of correct answers should be properly inclusive), but questions about presidential history are not.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#342353: Dec 7th 2020 at 6:08:01 AM

I don't see why not. If Trump can change them on the fly, then so can Biden, presumably.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
djoki996 Since: Dec, 2018
#342354: Dec 7th 2020 at 6:09:40 AM

[up][up][up] Now, I'm not an immigrant, or an American for that matter, but I have friends who are. According to them, the tests have already been extremely biased against anything leftist related (which is why I wonder how they could have made them even more biased), so I don't think that just changing them back to how they were would be good enough.

Edited by djoki996 on Dec 7th 2020 at 6:10:37 AM

djkates (Oldest One in the Book)
#342355: Dec 7th 2020 at 6:14:27 AM

[up] Good point. Perhaps a better solution would be to have new tests written up by a non-partisan entity. Even better would be if those tests were then given some measure of protection from partisan modification.

Edited by djkates on Dec 7th 2020 at 8:15:53 AM

PointMaid Since: Jun, 2014
#342356: Dec 7th 2020 at 6:19:44 AM

I imagine that could take some time, though. Reverting back to an earlier version might be an improvement until a non-partisan one can be created.

djoki996 Since: Dec, 2018
#342357: Dec 7th 2020 at 6:20:16 AM

[up][up] Yeah, that would be for the best. In my opinion (again, keep in mind, not an American, so take my opinion with a grain of salt) they should tests knowledge of constitution, laws, some history (I really don't think knowing the name of every single president USA had is absolutely necessary) etc.

Edited by djoki996 on Dec 7th 2020 at 6:20:27 AM

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#342358: Dec 7th 2020 at 6:26:19 AM

I don't know how fair you can really make these tests anyway, citizenship tests anywhere have always been little more than glorified purity tests.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#342359: Dec 7th 2020 at 6:32:06 AM

[up][up] That is mostly what the current test does. There's 100 questions, and whoever is running your exam selects 10 questions to ask, and you have to get 6 right.

I took it for a test in middle school, and the focus is mostly on government (stuff about the role/important members of the three branches and a bunch of trivia related to each), the Constitution/Bill of Rights/Declaration of Independence, US History (naming Presidents, important historical events and figures), a bit about US geography.

Most questions, you only have to get one or two out of all the right answers. For example, one question asks about Native American tribes, and naming one will suffice.

When your friends say the test is anti-leftist, they probably mean in the sense that it very much has a mainstream view of US government and history and the subtext includes quite a bit of glorification of the Founders/Constitution etc. And there's a surprising amount of focus on wars the US has fought, in almost unnecessary detail.

Edited by nova92 on Dec 7th 2020 at 6:35:06 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#342360: Dec 7th 2020 at 6:35:29 AM

It's a stupid easy test, all things considered. A written part of a typical driving test is more difficult.

About the only thing the test really confirms is whether or not you care enough about citizenship to spend a few hours studying the questions.

Edited by M84 on Dec 7th 2020 at 10:37:06 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
djoki996 Since: Dec, 2018
#342361: Dec 7th 2020 at 6:37:05 AM

[up][up] No. It outright asks you whether you were ever a member of a communist or socialist party.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#342362: Dec 7th 2020 at 6:39:28 AM

Incorrect. Even the new 2020 version doesn't ask if you were ever an actual member of one of those parties.

It does have shit like this though:

109. During the Cold War, what was one main concern of the United States?

  • Communism
  • Nuclear war

110. Why did the United States enter the Korean War?

  • To stop the spread of communism

111. Why did the United States enter the Vietnam War?

  • To stop the spread of communism

Edited by M84 on Dec 7th 2020 at 10:40:28 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
djkates (Oldest One in the Book)
#342363: Dec 7th 2020 at 6:39:54 AM

(Natural-born American here, for perspective.) I question the wisdom of including history questions on the test. A lot of the other stuff makes sense. Knowing how the government works, what's in the Constitution (to a reasonable extent), other appropriate laws, and the like... that's all called for. The history knowledge seems less so, because while that knowledge does have its purposes, it seems a lot less necessary to be able to function as a citizen.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#342364: Dec 7th 2020 at 6:41:42 AM

TBH, we probably should know it, but there's thankfully no way to deny citizenship to natural born citizens if we don't.

Disgusted, but not surprised
nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#342365: Dec 7th 2020 at 6:43:40 AM

[up][up][up][up] That's not part of the citizenship test. You're ineligible for citizenship, if you've been a member of a communist party in the past decade, but socialist parties are not part of the restriction, and that's separate from the test.


[up][up][up] Q109 was a part of the previous test, but the extended focus on Communism is certainly eyebrow-raising.

Edited by nova92 on Dec 7th 2020 at 6:45:04 AM

Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#342366: Dec 7th 2020 at 6:44:06 AM

[up][up]But da ANCHOR babbies!!1!!tongue

Edited by Wildcard on Dec 7th 2020 at 9:44:18 AM

clemont107 Mega Togekiss?! from Land of Missed Opportunities (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Mega Togekiss?!
#342367: Dec 7th 2020 at 6:53:36 AM

[up][up]The focus on communism is weird given that Trump himself cozies up with Communist dictators like Xi Jinping and Kim Jong-un. I bet Trump also keeps copies of Mao Zedong's works even if he claims to be "tough" on China.

Biden is the actual president who will be tough on China. Not Trump.

"Wow, no Mega Togekiss in Legends Z-A. Or any non-Froslass new Sinnoh Mega Evolutions. Round of applause, everybody." - Dawn
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#342368: Dec 7th 2020 at 6:59:22 AM

They try to act like the Cold War is still going, while hoping the cognitive dissonance required to support the GOP leads to ignore them cozying up to the CCP.

Wake me up at your own risk.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#342369: Dec 7th 2020 at 7:07:59 AM

The fact Trump may in fact be a Manchurian Candidate from communist strongman regimes makes this whole thing feel like Tom Clancy wrote the past four years. Except Tom would be confused as fuck with the Republicans being the party bought and sold by communists.

Not even good Tom Clancy either. The shitty Tom Clancy where the Democratic leader is a fat rich rapist.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Dec 7th 2020 at 7:08:30 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#342370: Dec 7th 2020 at 7:16:18 AM

To be fair, the CCP is no longer "communist" in most senses of the word. Xi is an authoritarian with frankly fascist leanings who arguably has more in common with the GOP than he does with Mao. The closest thing to an old-style Cold War communist dictatorship that comes to mind in the modern world is the Maduro regime in Venezuela, which Republicans do genuinely hate.

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#342371: Dec 7th 2020 at 7:25:49 AM

Tom Clancy would expy Trump for a book, but make him a democrat.

"You can reply to this Message!"
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#342372: Dec 7th 2020 at 7:34:43 AM

[up][up]Eh not really, Republicans actually love it. As long as it still exists they can say "BUT VENEZUELA!" whenever we suggest not letting children die from lack of insurance.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#342373: Dec 7th 2020 at 7:36:45 AM

To be fair, the Donald Trump that Clancy knew was a Democrat.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Altris from the Vortex Since: Aug, 2019 Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#342375: Dec 7th 2020 at 7:40:17 AM

Yep.

His books are being released under his name because he sold his name.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

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