Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Again, Nixon. Nixon hadn't been charged with anything before Ford pardoned him, because he almost certainly would have been otherwise. There's enough precedent that Trump could easily do it and any half-competent lawyer could successfully argue his ability to do so. Pardoning himself is another matter.
Edited by TheRoguePenguin on Dec 3rd 2020 at 11:33:15 AM
x3 As can be seen with both Democrats and Republicans with regards to social distancing rules, high-ranking officials generally don't respect the rules. And they almost always get away with it. It's nothing new.
I think he knows about his legal exposure - let's not forget, he's already had to settle on Trump University and close down the Trump Foundation.
What I'm less certain on is if he thinks that he is out of the reach of NY prosecutors because he changed his residence to Florida. That could be a rude awakening for him.
Its more likely that he changed residences to try and hide/protect what assets he has left of value that haven't been mortgaged to the hilt. However he's not the first guy to try that stunt and if the various State Lawyers can prove that the residential move was to hide assets that protection can be revoked and the assets are now fair game.
Well, a few things: first, Pardons don't cover crimes that haven't been committed yet. Second, pardons are specific and individual- they excuse one individual for one particular crime. Third, pardons tend to be politically unpopular, which is why presidents traditionally wait until their lame duck period before heavily using them.
But, really, the thing that you fundamentally can't mount a defence against 'there's an insane person in power and nobody's inclined to reign them in'. Any check or balance you can come up with has to be enforced by people, so if those people aren't inclined to enforce the rules, not much can be done.
Edited by Gilphon on Dec 3rd 2020 at 3:31:12 PM
"The pardon powers of the President are based on Article Two of the United States Constitution (Section 2, Clause 1), which provides: The President ... shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of impeachment"
> and how hard a thing is this to change?
It would require an amendment,which means makes damn near impossible
Edited by Ultimatum on Dec 3rd 2020 at 8:50:20 PM
have a listen and have a link to my discord serverHypothetically, Congress could pass laws circumscribing the pardon power, but those would undoubtedly have to stand up to Supreme Court scrutiny. You can imagine where that would go in the current environment.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"And Technically Nixon had already been impeached (which is an indication of guilt) before Ford pardoned him. He just resigned before the Senate Trial and after he had been told that there were going to be enough votes to remove him from office. The Pardon was for the items that he had been accused of in the House Impeachment, and I *think* any other crimes connected to those *specific* charges. If they found evidence of a crime Nixon committed that wasn't related to Watergate then he could be charged but nothing connected TO Watergate...IIRC
I don't think Trump can give a blanket pre-emptive pardon as protection against any and all federal crimes he and his family committed while he was in office, that is WAY TO BROAD and would give carte blanc permission for any future Democrat to pull the same stunts, or an even WORSE Trump 2.0 whomever that may be.
Yeah, that's going to run headlong into some odd theorizing that hasn't really been trod (at least that I'm aware of). If, however, those specific people who are asking for Pardons go to a Federal authority and confess their crimes and ask to be arrested, then Trump could unambiguously issue a Pardon for their criminal activity. But activity that has not yet been brought to light? That's some murky water.
"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"Not really. I hate to beat a dead horse here, but read Ford's pardon of Nixon
. No mention of specific crimes, just a blanket pardon over a set period of time.
Edited by TheRoguePenguin on Dec 3rd 2020 at 1:52:14 AM
The thing is, Nixon was formally accused of a certain action, and the Pardon applied to that action and other criminal acts in relation to it - I'm not sure it would pass legal muster if even the accusation is absent.
For example, if Nixon had also, say, committed a hit-and-run (impossible since Presidents are literally not allowed to drive themselves) during that period, I don't think the Pardon could reasonably have been applied to that action. But then again, it could also be a case of Ain't No Rule, so I'm sure legal scholars will be having a field day with this hypothetical.
Edited by ironballs16 on Dec 3rd 2020 at 5:01:36 AM
"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"

x3 Is there really such thing as a "pre-emptive pardon"? I thought you couldn't be pardoned if you weren't charged with anything to begin with.
"Wow, no Mega Togekiss in Legends Z-A. Or any non-Froslass new Sinnoh Mega Evolutions. Round of applause, everybody." - Dawn