TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#341901: Dec 1st 2020 at 8:04:28 AM

[up]Sounds like Thanksgiving for some of us. Luckily my entire family hates Trump, even the ones who are on a church board.

FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#341902: Dec 1st 2020 at 8:05:56 AM

New York Times: 'Trump Is Better': In Asia, Pro-Democracy Forces Worry About Biden

Key passages:

It might seem counterintuitive that Asian defenders of democracy are among the most ardent supporters of Mr. Trump, who has declared his friendship with Xi Jinping of China and Kim Jong-un of North Korea. But it is precisely Mr. Trump's willingness to flout diplomatic protocol, abandon international accords and keep his opponents off-balance that have earned him plaudits as a leader strong enough to stand up to dictators and defend democratic ideals overseas, even if he has been criticized as diminishing them at home.

As President-elect Biden assembles his foreign-policy team, prominent human rights activists across Asia are worried about his desire for the United States to hew again to international norms. They believe that Mr. Biden, like former President Barack Obama, will pursue accommodation rather than confrontation in the face of China’s assertive moves. And their pro-Trump views have been cemented by online misinformation, often delivered by dubious news sources, that Mr. Biden is working in tandem with communists or is a closet socialist sympathizer.

Skepticism for Mr. Biden extends to those fighting for secular political rights as well. The president-elect's embrace of diplomatic custom will not work when only one side is playing fairly, they say.

"For Biden's policies toward China, the part about making China play by the international rules, I think, is very hollow," said Wang Dan, who helped lead the 1989 Tiananmen protests as a university student. "As we know, the Chinese Communist Party hardly abides by international rules."

One of the most influential voices spreading false narratives about Mr. Biden and the election on Twitter is Ai Weiwei, the Chinese contemporary artist who now lives in overseas exile.

In an interview, Mr. Ai said that he was not a fan of Mr. Trump. For his art, he has posed at Trump properties with his middle finger raised. But Mr. Ai said that by shutting off debate on his social media feed, he would be no different than an authoritarian government like China's.

"The Trump administration by far has done more to raise our issue [about Uighurs in Xinjiang] than all other countries combined," said Salih Hudayar, who was born in Xinjiang and moved to the United States as a child. "I'm very skeptical of a Biden administration because I am worried he will allow China to go back to normal, which is a 21st-century genocide of the Uighurs."

Foreign policy advisers to Mr. Biden say that it is unfair to presume that he will continue the Obama administration's moderate stance. It is, they say, a different era. The recent human rights legislation championed by the Trump administration has received broad bipartisan support.

And some Asian dissidents acknowledge that the antipathy toward Mr. Biden is driven in part by a deluge of online misinformation that paints the president-elect as a secret socialist or contends, without any proof, that foreign "communist money" turned the election against Mr. Trump. Such unsubstantiated claims have been repeated by niche online publications in Vietnamese, Chinese and other languages.

"These guys are utilitarian, and they believe that if Trump is waging war against the C.C.P. then he's right for them," Mr. Badiucao said. "That mentality fits the whole 'America First' ideology, where it's OK for other people to suffer if your goal is met, and their goal is overthrowing the C.C.P."

Resileafs I actually wanted to be Resileaf Since: Jan, 2019
I actually wanted to be Resileaf
#341903: Dec 1st 2020 at 8:10:28 AM

"A leader strong enough to stand up to dictators and defend democratic ideals overseas", really? Have these people not seen T**** openly cozying up to dictators, admiring the way they lead their country and wishing he could do the same as them? Just another propagandist piece that ignores reality.

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#341904: Dec 1st 2020 at 8:10:31 AM

Do they realize that he basically weakened the international standing of the USA and let China gain footholds? Not to mention Russia.

Wake me up at your own risk.
megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#341905: Dec 1st 2020 at 8:15:56 AM

I'm guessing "no". I don't feel most of these see international relations beyond having blinders limiting their view of such beyond China itself.

The damned queen and the relentless knight.
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#341906: Dec 1st 2020 at 8:25:06 AM

"The Trump administration by far has done more to raise our issue [about Uighurs in Xinjiang] than all other countries combined," said Salih Hudayar, who was born in Xinjiang and moved to the United States as a child. "I'm very skeptical of a Biden administration because I am worried he will allow China to go back to normal, which is a 21st-century genocide of the Uighurs."

I wonder if he knows that Trump told Xi the concentration camps were a great idea.

In any case the article highlights again the most reoccurring issue of online disinformation. We really really really need to figure out the best way to combat that or we're in for more hurting in the next elections.

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#341907: Dec 1st 2020 at 8:25:24 AM

Yeah, they probably aren’t paying attention to North Korea or any of the other dictatorships Trump is cuddling up to, just that he likes to bash China.

nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#341908: Dec 1st 2020 at 8:28:35 AM

The Denver Post: Colorado's young voters turned out in record numbers, largest bloc in the state

About 70% of registered 18- to 34-year-old Coloradans cast ballots in the 2020 election, a 9 percentage point increase from 2016, when turnout was 61%, according to New Era Colorado, the largest young voter registration organization in the state. The nonprofit advocates for progressive policies.

Their share of the vote was 27% of all ballots cast, cementing them as the largest voting bloc in the state, said Nicole Hensel, executive director of New Era Colorado.


Both Democratic and Republican campaigns worked to engage younger voters in Colorado, particularly on college campuses, but only a third of voters ages 18 to 29 cast ballots for President Donald Trump, according to Tufts' data from Nov. 6.


And, as with other demographic groups, an urgency to vote against Trump affected turnout, Preuhs noted. In 2016, youth and people of color did not turn out in the numbers Democrats expected, so they tried to make a more concerted effort to reach them in 2020.

Asian-American youth, in particular, showed strong engagement this election, according to the Tufts data.


The Colorado Votes Act, passed by Democratic lawmakers last year, also added voting centers and drop boxes at every college campus, expanded voting in primaries to 17-year-olds who would be 18 by the time of the general election and increased voting access on tribal lands.

"We love to see record youth turnout and what we hope that translates into is a mandate for centering a youth agenda in the minds of our elected officials," Hensel said.

PointMaid Since: Jun, 2014
#341909: Dec 1st 2020 at 8:28:38 AM

Re: Anti-democratic conspiracies in the open from the last page: Not just the electoral college, things like gerrymandered house districts. Courts: 'We can't do anything about politically gerrymandered districts!' Redistricting commissions: 'Oh great, we'll just be openly partisan and not even hide it!'

Facepalm.

nightwyrm_zero Since: Apr, 2010
#341910: Dec 1st 2020 at 8:38:33 AM

Re: Asian impression of Trump as a strong leader. Most people and press don't look at the inner workings or behind the scenes of what's going on in another country. They report on what the country leader says and maybe some big actions they implemented if it directly affects their own country. Their analysis won't go much beyond "Trumps says he's tough on China and he put tariffs on them."

This isn't just an Asian thing. How many laypeople in the US know about the inner workings of Iran or China or India etc. The are given a first impression of them thru their press and don't go much further. It doesn't even have to be misinformation. Just lazy reporting is enough. I've listened to Chinese talk radios from time to time up here in Canada and they pretty much take Trump's "America First" and "Tough on China" talking points at face value. I get more in-depth political analysis from browsing reddit than from them.

Edited by nightwyrm_zero on Dec 1st 2020 at 8:45:32 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#341911: Dec 1st 2020 at 8:47:47 AM

I think they perceive Trump as a president who is a loud and does things,with Biden they're convinced he'll be president 'Do nothing' out of a desire to avoid rocking the boat,thus remain friendly with China

What they overlook is that Trump is President 'Do little' and little good came out his bluster,regurdless how loud he was,but then again,things like diplomacy don't matter to people that.

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#341912: Dec 1st 2020 at 9:01:41 AM

So... we're probably not getting another round of stimulus checks.

While there's support from both Republicans and Democrats for sending out another round of payments, it's unlikely Americans will get a second round of stimulus checks before the end of the year — and lawmakers have been unable to come to any agreement on a broader economic aid package. (...) More than 160 million Americans received stimulus payments earlier in the year, after Congress approved a $2 trillion aid package in March. They helped keep many families out of poverty as millions of people lost their jobs due to the pandemic.

But for many, that $1,200 check has already been spent. Now, as coronavirus cases surge, a group of more than 120 economists are urging lawmakers to approve another round of checks, arguing that they are "one of the quickest, most equitable, and most effective ways to get families and the economy back on track."

Congress has already allowed some relief programs to expire, like the Paycheck Protection Program for small businesses and the $600 federal boost to weekly unemployment benefits. But others end this month. If Congress adds any stimulus to the general spending bill, they may prioritize pushing back those deadlines.

Personal anecdote: A local church near me does free lunches every Saturday and there's always a line-up down the road. If that's not a sign we need far more help than we're getting, I don't know what is.

nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#341913: Dec 1st 2020 at 9:06:19 AM

While there's support from both Republicans and Democrats for sending out another round of payments

This is misleading. The bill passed by Democrats in the House included additional stimulus checks. The one pushed by Senate Republicans doesn't. I'm sure there are individual Republicans who would support checks, but that isn't getting past Mitch's desk or getting the support of the wider GOP caucus.

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#341914: Dec 1st 2020 at 9:07:31 AM

It's basically modern day breadlines.

But yeah, blame McConnell. Trump was likely more receptive prior to the election, but I doubt he's receptive now.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
clemont107 Mega Togekiss?! from Land of Missed Opportunities (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Mega Togekiss?!
#341916: Dec 1st 2020 at 9:14:05 AM

[up]Why a pardon? Rudy Moody hasn't been charged with anything yet.

"Wow, no Mega Togekiss in Legends Z-A. Or any non-Froslass new Sinnoh Mega Evolutions. Round of applause, everybody." - Dawn
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#341917: Dec 1st 2020 at 9:15:43 AM

Hence "preemptive", probably. Also, from the article:

The former New York mayor is the focus of a federal criminal investigation into whether he violated foreign lobbying laws through his dealings in Ukraine and his involvement in the abrupt firing of Marie Yovanovitch as the US's ambassador to Ukraine.

Edited by sgamer82 on Dec 1st 2020 at 9:17:18 AM

clemont107 Mega Togekiss?! from Land of Missed Opportunities (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Mega Togekiss?!
#341918: Dec 1st 2020 at 9:19:20 AM

[up]Hence the federal criminal investigation should not charge Rudy Moody until Donnie Twitterfingers is out of office.

"Wow, no Mega Togekiss in Legends Z-A. Or any non-Froslass new Sinnoh Mega Evolutions. Round of applause, everybody." - Dawn
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#341919: Dec 1st 2020 at 10:31:52 AM

Ayooooooooooooo, I saw the Electoral College mentioned. Imagine being a progressive and thinking the EC is a democratic or remotely useful institution in 2020, where a Republican has won the popular mandate only once in the past 28 years, but won three presidential terms.

Needing an institution to foist an unpopular President onto the nation so dilapidated Midwestern states feel important is political hostage-taking.

Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Dec 1st 2020 at 1:34:14 PM

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#341920: Dec 1st 2020 at 10:50:26 AM

Fired cybersecurity chief hints at legal action after Trump campaign lawyer said he should be shot – "I've got an exceptional team of lawyers that win in court, and I think they're probably going to be busy,” he said.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/fired-cybersecurity-chief-hints-legal-action-after-trump-campaign-lawyer-n1249505

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#341921: Dec 1st 2020 at 11:16:50 AM

From the article:

In a statement Tuesday afternoon, diGenova said, “For anyone listening to the Howie Carr Show, it was obvious that my remarks were sarcastic and made in jest. I, of course, wish Mr. Krebs no harm. This was hyperbole in a political discourse.”
Again with the "Just Joking" Justification? Besides, this kind of hate speech radicalizes people regardless of if he was "joking" or not.

Edited by speedyboris on Dec 1st 2020 at 11:17:14 AM

Altris from the Vortex Since: Aug, 2019 Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
#341922: Dec 1st 2020 at 11:28:52 AM

Saying things like

"[Mr. Krebs] is a class A moron. He should be drawn and quartered. Taken out at dawn and shot."

is dangerously indicative of promoting violence against democratic institutions, especially when poll workers have already been getting death threats for doing their jobs.

So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my Tumblr
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#341923: Dec 1st 2020 at 11:31:06 AM

Did anyone notice that the National Review Editors made a thing against Trump's election complaining?

Link here

    Article because fuck giving the NR clicks 
President Trump said the other day that he’d leave office if he loses the vote of the Electoral College on December 14.

This is not the kind of assurance presidents of the United States typically need to make, but it was noteworthy given Trump’s disgraceful conduct since losing his bid for reelection to Joe Biden on November 3.

Behind in almost all the major polls, Trump stormed within a hair’s breadth in the key battlegrounds of winning reelection, and his unexpectedly robust performance helped put Republicans in a strong position for the post-Trump-presidency era. This is not nothing. But the president can’t stand to admit that he lost and so has insisted since the wee hours of Election Night that he really won — and won “by a lot.”

There are legitimate issues to consider after the 2020 vote about the security of mail-in ballots and the process of counting votes (some jurisdictions, bizarrely, take weeks to complete their initial count), but make no mistake: The chief driver of the post-election contention of the past several weeks is the petulant refusal of one man to accept the verdict of the American people. The Trump team (and much of the GOP) is working backwards, desperately trying to find something, anything to support the president’s aggrieved feelings, rather than objectively considering the evidence and reacting as warranted.

Almost nothing that the Trump team has alleged has withstood the slightest scrutiny. In particular, it’s hard to find much that is remotely true in the president’s Twitter feed these days. It is full of already-debunked claims and crackpot conspiracy theories about Dominion voting systems. Over the weekend, he repeated the charge that 1.8 million mail-in ballots in Pennsylvania were mailed out, yet 2.6 million were ultimately tallied. In a rather elementary error, this compares the number of mail-ballots requested in the primary to the number of ballots counted in the general. A straight apples-to-apples comparison finds that 1.8 million mail-in ballots were requested in the primary and 1.5 million returned, while 3.1 million ballots were requested in the general and 2.6 million returned.

Flawed and dishonest assertions like this pollute the public discourse and mislead good people who make the mistake of believing things said by the president of the United States.

Elected Republicans have generally taken the attitude that the president should be able to have his day in court. It’s his legal right to file suits, of course, but he shouldn’t pursue meritless litigation in Hail Mary attempts to get millions of votes tossed out. This is exactly what he’s been doing, it’s why reputable GOP lawyers have increasingly steered clear, and it’s why Trump has suffered defeat after defeat in court.

In its signature federal suit in Pennsylvania, the Trump team argued that it violated the equal-protection clause of the U.S. Constitution for some Pennsylvania counties to let absentee voters fix or “cure” their ballots if they contained an error while other counties didn’t. It maintained that it was another constitutional violation for Trump election observers not to be allowed in close proximity to the counting of ballots. On this basis, the Trump team sought to disqualify 1.5 million ballots and bar the certification of the Pennsylvania results or have the Pennsylvania General Assembly appoint presidential electors.

By the time the suit reached the Third Circuit, it had been whittled down to a relatively minor procedural issue (whether the Trump complaint could be amended a second time in the district court). The Trump team lost on that question, and the unanimous panel of the Third Circuit (in an opinion written by a Trump appointee) made it clear that the other claims lacked merit as well. It noted that the suit contained no evidence that Trump and Biden ballots or observers were treated differently, let alone evidence of fraud. Within reason, it is permissible for counties to have different procedures for handling ballots, and nothing forced some counties to permit voters to cure flawed absentee ballots and others to decline to do so.

Not that it mattered. The court pointed out that the suit challenged the procedures to fix absentee ballots in seven Democratic counties, which don’t even come close to having enough cured ballots to change the outcome in the state; the counties might have allowed, at most, 10,000 voters to fix their ballots, and even if every single one of them voted for Biden, that’s still far short of Biden’s 80,000-plus margin in the state.

The idea, as the Trump team stalwartly maintains, that the Supreme Court is going to take up this case and issue a game-changing ruling is fantastical. Conservative judges have consistently rejected Trump’s flailing legal appeals, and the justices are unlikely to have a different reaction.

Trump’s most reprehensible tactic has been to attempt, somewhat shamefacedly, to get local Republican officials to block the certification of votes and state legislatures to appoint Trump electors in clear violation of the public will. This has gone nowhere, thanks to the honesty and sense of duty of most of the Republicans involved, but it’s a profoundly undemocratic move that we hope no losing presidential candidate ever even thinks of again.

Getting defeated in a national election is a blow to the ego of even the most thick-skinned politicians and inevitably engenders personal feelings of bitterness and anger. What America has long expected is that losing candidates swallow those feelings and at least pretend to be gracious. If Trump’s not capable of it, he should at least stop waging war on the outcome.

TL;DR, greatly conservative op calling Trump a whining idiot who is making the obviously heroic and freedom-loving republicans look bad.

Edited by Aszur on Dec 1st 2020 at 1:35:14 PM

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
clemont107 Mega Togekiss?! from Land of Missed Opportunities (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Mega Togekiss?!
#341924: Dec 1st 2020 at 11:31:13 AM

[up][up][up]This is the same kind of strategy Donnie Twitterfingers comes up with after he says something offensive or cruel: backtrack and say you were either joking or being sarcastic. People should not fall for this tactic over and over.

Edited by clemont107 on Dec 1st 2020 at 2:31:21 PM

"Wow, no Mega Togekiss in Legends Z-A. Or any non-Froslass new Sinnoh Mega Evolutions. Round of applause, everybody." - Dawn
Perseus Since: Nov, 2009

Total posts: 417,856
Top