TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#341876: Nov 30th 2020 at 11:04:49 PM

I'm just wondering why someone here is even following an outlet like Spectator.

Disgusted, but not surprised
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#341877: Nov 30th 2020 at 11:05:12 PM

Maybe they didn't know about the reputation? I haven't heard of it until now.

Edited by fredhot16 on Nov 30th 2020 at 11:06:00 AM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#341878: Nov 30th 2020 at 11:06:06 PM

Sounds like it was shared with them by someone else.

nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#341879: Nov 30th 2020 at 11:10:11 PM

I'm reading the article right now, and I wouldn't even know where to begin debunking it, because it's complete nonsense, misleading insinuations, lies and made up "facts" from top to bottom. Like, this dude is just pulling numbers out of thin air.

Edited by nova92 on Nov 30th 2020 at 11:11:06 AM

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#341880: Nov 30th 2020 at 11:11:31 PM

Also, I'm a bit leery of the way you're putting that last sentence. Sounds...close to accusatory?

It wasn't meant to be. There have been the occasional right-wing trolls who drop links with a message like "Hey guys, just saw this. Doesn't look good, what do you guys think...?" It's not really a discussion so much as hurling a grenade.

Well, I thought it was pretty biased, but some geniuses on the internet decided to present it as an argument to cast suspicion on the results, so I decided to cross-check the source and help point out the flaws.

All right.

Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Nov 30th 2020 at 2:13:37 PM

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#341881: Nov 30th 2020 at 11:15:53 PM

Mmmm. I think I remember a handful of incidents like that.

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#341882: Nov 30th 2020 at 11:16:29 PM

[up][up][up]Didn't even bother clicking on the link. Didn't want to give the site a hit, and I figured that if there was anything of actual substance to it, a more reputable news outlet would have reported on it by now.

Edited by M84 on Dec 1st 2020 at 3:16:38 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Ayasugi Since: Oct, 2010
#341883: Nov 30th 2020 at 11:53:13 PM

Re: supposed election discrepancy, it's probably just because there's so much scrutiny this election. The more you look for issues, the more screw-ups you find. It's just that most of them are normal mistakes that wouldn't be more than local news of "election official makes mistake, is asked to resign".

nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#341884: Dec 1st 2020 at 12:19:05 AM

Nah, this dude is just flat out lying. I have a bit of time, so just to touch on a few of the more egregious points:

Trump increased his share of the national Hispanic vote to 35 percent. With 60 percent or less of the national Hispanic vote, it is arithmetically impossible for a Democratic presidential candidate to win Florida, Arizona, Nevada, and New Mexico. Bellwether states swung further in Trump's direction than in 2016.

Bellweather states are not causal, and don't remain bellweathers forever. His point on the Hispanic vote is just flat out wrong, and swings toward Trump weren't uniform, and Biden lost Florida. The author also simply doesn't consider that college-educated and suburban white voters could have shifted toward Democrats.

We are told that Biden won more votes nationally than any presidential candidate in history. But he won a record low of 17 percent of counties; he only won 524 counties, as opposed to the 873 counties Obama won in 2008. Yet, Biden somehow outdid Obama in total votes.

Conservatives again fail to understand that land doesn't vote - people do. Since Obama, Democrats are collapsing in sparsely populated rural areas, which have few people but make up lots of counties, while driving up the margin enormously in urban areas, which make up few counties but have many voters. Also Obama got a higher percentage, but more people turned out in 2020. You can't compare raw votes to margins.

Another anomaly is found in the comparison between the polls and non-polling metrics. The latter include: party registrations trends; the candidates' respective primary votes; candidate enthusiasm; social media followings; broadcast and digital media ratings; online searches; the number of (especially small) donors; and the number of individuals betting on each candidate.

Party registration trends are lagging indicators, you can't compare a primary for an incumbent President with an open primary, a ton of people in betting markets don't have a clue about politics, Democrats actually saw a record number of small donors this year, etc.

The following peculiarities also lack compelling explanations:

1. Late on election night, with Trump comfortably ahead, many swing states stopped counting ballots. In most cases, observers were removed from the counting facilities. Counting generally continued without the observers

2. Statistically abnormal vote counts were the new normal when counting resumed. They were unusually large in size (hundreds of thousands) and had an unusually high (90 percent and above) Biden-to-Trump ratio

3. Late arriving ballots were counted. In Pennsylvania, 23,000 absentee ballots have impossible postal return dates and another 86,000 have such extraordinary return dates they raise serious questions

4. The failure to match signatures on mail-in ballots. The destruction of mail-in ballot envelopes, which must contain signatures

5. Historically low absentee ballot rejection rates despite the massive expansion of mail voting. Such is Biden's narrow margin that, as political analyst Robert Barnes observes, 'If the states simply imposed the same absentee ballot rejection rate as recent cycles, then Trump wins the election'

6. Missing votes. In Delaware County, Pennsylvania, 50,000 votes held on 47 USB cards are missing

7. Non-resident voters. Matt Braynard's Voter Integrity Project estimates that 20,312 people who no longer met residency requirements cast ballots in Georgia. Biden's margin is 12,670 votes

Nice to see he doesn't include a single citation on any of these points, except for the Voter Integrity Project, conveniently not mentioning that Matt Braynard is a former Trump campaign staffer. None of those points are true. 1. Observers were in the room when ballots were counted. 2. Later votes were from early/mail-in votes, often from Democratic strongholds. 3. Late-arriving ballots were segregated from other ballots in Pennsylvania, per a court case - Biden won comfortably without them. 4. Again, this is a lie. Signatures were matched. 6. This is based on one dude claiming such a thing happened, no proof to back it up, and none of the other poll watchers reported any irregularities. 7. Voter fraud did not happen in Georgia, per the Republican Secretary of State. Braynard is literally claiming that he's just calling people and they're admitting to having committed voter fraud on the phone to him and promising to bear witness. [1]


This entire article is just lies, spun whole cloth. There is no shred of credible evidence of voter fraud, stolen votes, etc.

Edited by nova92 on Dec 1st 2020 at 12:37:10 PM

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#341885: Dec 1st 2020 at 12:29:15 AM

Trump increased his share of the national Hispanic vote to 35 percent. With 60 percent or less of the national Hispanic vote, it is arithmetically impossible for a Democratic presidential candidate to win Florida, Arizona, Nevada, and New Mexico.

...Okay, this isn't nearly the dumbest thing in there - or even necessarily about this statement specifically - but 100 minus 35 is 65, which is more than 60. What is the "gotcha" here even supposed to be?

Especially considering that Biden didn't actually win Florida - and in fact kinda got stomped there - to begin with.

(And yeah, I know third-party candidates exist, but they didn't make much impact this election.)

Edit: Totally unrelated, but I'd rather not double-post again - so how likely is it that the Georgia Senate runoffs will actually be called on January 5? I'm seeing reports that close to a million absentee ballots have already been requested, which makes me suspect there's going to be a repeat of Election 'Week', especially since it's going to be another close race.

Edited by nrjxll on Dec 1st 2020 at 4:41:21 AM

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#341886: Dec 1st 2020 at 5:23:54 AM

To my mind, I'd think if there truly was something to be concerned about re: voting irregularities, one of the Trump campaign's three dozen-odd lawsuits would have turned up something, rather than fail almost universally and, in at least one instance, before a Trump appointed judge.

They're actively looking for evidence of fraud. Even accounting for Giuliani's incompetence, if there were something like proof sitting around Trump's lawyers would have jumped on it.

Edited by sgamer82 on Dec 1st 2020 at 5:25:18 AM

clemont107 Mega Togekiss?! from Land of Missed Opportunities (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Mega Togekiss?!
#341887: Dec 1st 2020 at 5:38:44 AM

[up]Maybe it's because T**** himself is made of fraud.

"Wow, no Mega Togekiss in Legends Z-A. Or any non-Froslass new Sinnoh Mega Evolutions. Round of applause, everybody." - Dawn
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#341888: Dec 1st 2020 at 6:25:33 AM

This is hilarious: WATCH: Arizona Gov. Doug Ducey Blows Off Trump Phone Call In the Middle of Certifying Election Results

Arizona Governor Doug Ducey received a phone call in the middle of a live broadcast of an election certifying ceremony that confirmed his state’s electors would vote for President-elect Joe Biden. Ducey blew off the phone call, which, judging by the ringtone and Gov. Ducey’s previous account, was a phone call directly from President Donald Trump.

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#341889: Dec 1st 2020 at 6:33:04 AM

Says a lot that in the past such behavior would likely be considered unimaginable.

Wake me up at your own risk.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#341890: Dec 1st 2020 at 6:48:28 AM

If that was Trump, can't wait to see how he tweets about it.

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#341891: Dec 1st 2020 at 6:51:12 AM

...Okay, this isn't nearly the dumbest thing in there - or even necessarily about this statement specifically - but 100 minus 35 is 65, which is more than 60. What is the "gotcha" here even supposed to be?

It works 100% of the time, 30% of the time, most of the time!

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Lazlo74 from A tropical hell-hole Since: May, 2018
#341892: Dec 1st 2020 at 7:32:34 AM

While most of the allegations thrown by the far-right and Trumpers are utterly laughable, there are actually some centrists and even Democrats who believe that the election system is fundamentally flawed and prone to forms of fraud. They also came from the same stock of people who completely distrusts mainstream media for whatever reason.

Scaled seeker
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#341893: Dec 1st 2020 at 7:40:37 AM

They probably also believe in alternative medicine and hate electric cars. People like that don't fall victim to just one hoax or conspiracy theory.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#341894: Dec 1st 2020 at 7:42:37 AM

That just sounds like people prone to believing conspiracy theories, to me.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#341895: Dec 1st 2020 at 7:53:07 AM

I feel like I'm always the guy who points out there are conspiracies against democracy, widespread fraud, and cheating.

It's just by REPUBLICANS.

That they will get away with.

Again.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#341896: Dec 1st 2020 at 7:55:00 AM

To be fair, there's hardly anything conspiratorial in saying that the election system is fundamentally flawed in the broadest sense of the phrase. Like I said on the last page, the Republican candidate has won the popular vote once in my lifetime. The Electoral College remains the stupidest antidemocratic archaism of an American political system that has more than a few antidemocratic archaisms.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#341897: Dec 1st 2020 at 7:55:22 AM

Is it really a conspiracy if it's not a secret?

Although, bad as they are, i'm not aware of republicans committing widespread voter fraud recently.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Dec 1st 2020 at 12:56:09 PM

Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#341898: Dec 1st 2020 at 7:55:59 AM

I do find it uncomfortable that the voters that flipped from Trump to Biden likely only did because of COVID-19 and how it effected them. It's terrible, but it looks like the only way some people will learn empathy is if something terrible happens to them.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#341899: Dec 1st 2020 at 7:59:12 AM

It's true: the most ironic thing about these conspiracy theories is that they assume some kind of secret anti-democratic operations, when the actual anti-democratic operation is right out in plain sight, written into the Constitution. It's called the Electoral College. Without it, the GOP might actually have to appeal to a majority of Americans.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#341900: Dec 1st 2020 at 8:00:48 AM

[grimaces, suppresses his opinion, grits teeth]

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

Total posts: 417,856
Top