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DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#34151: Oct 21st 2012 at 10:46:11 PM

US Representative Steve King: Comparing Immigrants To Dogs Was 'A Compliment'

This man is so lucky that he is not a Senator, because if he was someone might actually pay attention to him. tongue

edited 21st Oct '12 10:47:17 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#34152: Oct 21st 2012 at 10:49:21 PM

Also George McGovern died. sad

I might have already mentioned this.

edited 21st Oct '12 10:49:33 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#34153: Oct 21st 2012 at 10:53:55 PM

sad

Though I might not have voted for him back in 1972, it's still a loss of a person and a politician.

Unrelated but there was a side link about Obama giving Jay-Z parenting advice for his and Beyonce's child.

deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#34154: Oct 21st 2012 at 11:17:09 PM

"These drone strikes make us the villain of the world as opposed to the beacon on the hill as opposed to the country that's always stood up against the bully. We've become the bully, and I think these drone strikes symbolize that." -Gary Johnson in the debate between him and Jill Stein posted earlier in this thread which I'll repost here

That's why people oppose drone strikes. That's why people make a big deal of them.

edited 21st Oct '12 11:19:19 PM by deathpigeon

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#34155: Oct 21st 2012 at 11:18:02 PM

Re: Drone Strikes:

Why do people keep mentioning that they've been used to kill U.S. citizens? I mean, I understand if you say the government doesn't have the right to assassinate people, especially when it's based on mere suspicion. But what does someone's citizenship status have to do with that?

In the United States, everyone is protected by the same rules of due process, whether they're a citizen or not. Some people argue that those rules only apply inside the U.S., while others say the government has to follow those rules even while operating abroad. Whichever position you take, I don't see where citizenship comes into play.

deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#34156: Oct 21st 2012 at 11:23:33 PM

I think that people mention US citizens being killed by them because it perfectly represents the problems with the drone strikes and gives an example of innocent deaths that strike close to home. It shows that no one is safe from the drone strikes, not even our own people. However, the drone strikes aren't wrong because they kill US citizens, they're wrong because they kill innocents and they are used to kill without all the information. They kill people in countries that we aren't even at war with where we have no business murdering people because we suspect terrorist ties.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#34157: Oct 21st 2012 at 11:26:59 PM

They kill people in countries that we aren't even at war with

If you're going to kill someone in a foreign country, isn't it better to have their permission (even if it's tacit) than to do it against their will?

deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#34158: Oct 21st 2012 at 11:27:55 PM

To my knowledge, we don't get permission from any of the countries we do drone strikes in.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#34159: Oct 21st 2012 at 11:29:23 PM

[up][up]

Pakistan's stance on the drone strikes is wired and usually contradictory.

edited 21st Oct '12 11:30:37 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#34160: Oct 21st 2012 at 11:30:10 PM

Don't they have the ability to shoot the drones down, though? If America doesn't have permission to conduct strikes there, why don't they do that?

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#34161: Oct 21st 2012 at 11:31:21 PM

Here Wikipedia explains it:

Pakistan has repeatedly protested these attacks as they are an infringement of its sovereignty and because civilian deaths have also resulted, including women and children, which has further angered the Pakistani government and people.[49][55][56][57] General David Petraeus was told in November 2008 that these strikes were unhelpful.[58] However on 4 October 2008 The Washington Post reported that there was a secret deal between the US and Pakistan allowing these drone attacks.[59] US Senator Dianne Feinstein said in February 2009: “As I understand it, these are flown out of a Pakistani base.”[60] Pakistani foreign minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi denied that this was true.[61]

According to unnamed US government officials, beginning in early 2011 the US would fax notifications to Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency (ISI) detailing the dates and general areas of future drone attack operations. The ISI would send a return fax acknowledging receipt, but not approving the operation. Nevertheless, it appeared that Pakistan would clear the airspace over the area and on the dates designated in the US fax. After the May 2011 raid that killed bin Laden, the ISI ceased acknowledging the US faxes, but Pakistani authorities have appeared to continue clearing the airspace in the areas where US drones are operating. According to an unnamed Pakistani government official, the Pakistan government believes that the US sends the faxes primarily to support legal justification for the drone attacks

On 9 December 2011, Pakistan's Army Chief Ashfaq Parvez Kayani issued a directive to shoot down US drones. A senior Pakistani military official said, "Any object entering into our air space, including U.S. drones, will be treated as hostile and be shot down."

The daily Indian newspaper The Hindu reported that Pakistan reached a secret agreement with United States to readmit the attacks of guided airplanes on its soil. According to a high western official linked with the negotiations, the pact was signed by ISI chief Lieutenant General Shuja Ahmad Pasha, and the director of the Central Intelligence Agency general David Petraeus during a meeting in Qatar January 2012. According to The Hindu, Lieutenant General Pasha also agreed to enlarge the CIA presence in Shahbaz air base, near the city of Abbottabad, where Al-Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden was terminated in May 2011.[80]

Pakistan's government publicly condemns these attacks, but has secretly shared intelligence with the United States[8] and also allegedly allowed the drones to operate from Shamsi Airfield in Pakistan until 21 April 2011, when 150 Americans left the base.[9] According to secret diplomatic cables leaked by Wikileaks, Pakistan's Army Chief Ashfaq Parvez Kayani not only tacitly agreed to the drone flights, but in 2008 requested Americans to increase them.[10] However, Pakistan's Interior Minister Rehman Malik said, "drone missiles cause collateral damage. A few militants are killed, but the majority of victims are innocent citizens."

The accuracy of the "A few militants are killed, but the majority of victims are innocent citizens" remark is also questionable.

edited 21st Oct '12 11:41:21 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#34162: Oct 21st 2012 at 11:38:08 PM

[up][up] Not really. The countries we do the drone strikes don't have anywhere near as advanced a military as us. Even if they did have the capabilities, with the sheer number of drone strikes we do, some would still get through. In addition, I highly doubt we tell them when we are going to do them in advanced, so, unless they stay on alert 24/7. we'd be able to get drone strikes through.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#34163: Oct 21st 2012 at 11:44:30 PM

[up][up][up]

The Pakistani Air Force is the 7th largest in the world, so even though they couldn't get all of the drones they should still be able to get some.

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Skatepunk Since: Feb, 2011
#34164: Oct 21st 2012 at 11:45:50 PM

Hmm...

Both liberals and conservatives support Jeff Landry over Charles Boustany for completely different reasons.

Well... the down with tyranny blog has De Mint saying the same thing as progressives: Landry serves the people and not special interests.

BTW, this is a run-off race in Louisiana between 2 incumbent Republicans as opposed to Dem vs. Rep.

edited 21st Oct '12 11:46:57 PM by Skatepunk

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#34165: Oct 21st 2012 at 11:46:18 PM

@deathpigeon: Take a look at Deviant Braeburn's post above yours. It sounds like the U.S. was actually telling the Pakistani government exactly where and when the drone strikes would occur, and Pakistan's where almost all the drone strikes occur.

edited 21st Oct '12 11:46:36 PM by RavenWilder

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#34166: Oct 21st 2012 at 11:46:58 PM

There's also the fact any contradictory statements from Pakistan, is last I checked, the country's government and military is ridiculously corrupt and a complete mess, and probably working with the US while simultaneously trying to high five the Taliban.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#34167: Oct 21st 2012 at 11:50:01 PM

[up]And the ISI defines Right Hand Versus Left Hand. Might as well be several different organizations.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#34168: Oct 21st 2012 at 11:54:59 PM

@Raven: I don't know about Deviant's source on that, but the source I found not only did not have Pakistan on there (in fact, in the #7 spot where he said that Pakistan's Air Force was at India's Air Force was sitting in), but the US Air Force was #1. Even if the Pakistani Air Force were at the #7 spot, they would still not be able to match the US Air Force.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#34169: Oct 22nd 2012 at 12:04:37 AM

[up]

Your list was the 10 strongest airforces, not the 10 largest airforces.

@Skatepunk,

BTW, this is a run-off race in Louisiana between 2 incumbent Republicans as opposed to Dem vs. Rep.

Well there is a Democrat named Ron Richard running, but as the Down With Tyranny blog notes he is basically a non-factor.

edited 22nd Oct '12 12:10:06 AM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#34170: Oct 22nd 2012 at 12:07:25 AM

Well, the strength of the Air Force is honestly probably much more important than the size of the Air Force, and I'm willing to bet that the US Air Force still topped that list.

Plus, the Pakistani military, as mentioned, is notoriously corrupt, and I assume that the Air Force is included. So all we'd have to do is bribe a couple of officials, and we'd probably be able to have unrestricted access to their airspace.

edited 22nd Oct '12 12:08:55 AM by deathpigeon

Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#34171: Oct 22nd 2012 at 12:22:01 AM

Well, some good news from NE-2 - the Omaha World-Herald (generally a right-leaning paper) has endorsed John Ewing (Democratic challenger) over Lee Terry (Republican incumbent and dickhead). Their main complaint is a failure on Terry's part to show leadership in legislating (basically, neither authoring nor sponsoring many bills) and that it's time to give someone else a shot.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#34172: Oct 22nd 2012 at 12:23:23 AM

Look the Pakistani Government is in a hard place between the American Government, Taliban & Al-Qaeda, and its own angry population. Added to the fact that most of its government is corrupt and working for the US or The Taliban (or both), or desperately trying to avoid an assassination attempt and we have the Pakistani Government becoming a Conundrum of Contradictory Clusterfucks

To put it simply the Pakistani government can't afford for us to stay and they can't afford for us to leave.

edited 22nd Oct '12 12:24:47 AM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#34173: Oct 22nd 2012 at 12:25:39 AM

And is that the sort of government that could do something about drone strikes in it if it wanted to? It doesn't seem like that to me.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#34174: Oct 22nd 2012 at 12:27:59 AM

[up][up][up]

Lee Terry co-sponsored SOPA.

F*ck that douche bag.

edited 22nd Oct '12 12:28:24 AM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#34175: Oct 22nd 2012 at 12:33:23 AM

You think I don't already hate him? The Dems could run a turkey sandwich with mustard against him and I'd vote for it over Terry. And I HATE mustard.


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