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Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#341651: Nov 29th 2020 at 2:21:51 PM

To me the number of abortions per pregnancy is the more relevant number, and about 1 in 5 still seems extremely high.

The applicable population isn’t “all women, even menopausal and post-menopausal ones who can’t become pregnant anyway”.

And the situations where birth control in the sense of condoms, the pill, IUD, etc. would be necessary are even smaller than that, as it’s basically just “casual relationships” + “committed relationship where you aren’t ready to have a kid yet.” For people who don’t want a kid at all, or who don’t want any additional kids, vasectomies and getting your tubes tied are pretty much completely effective.

And yes, I know some guys are babies about vasectomies, but they really should get over it.

Edited by Galadriel on Nov 29th 2020 at 5:27:43 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#341652: Nov 29th 2020 at 2:32:29 PM

If you lack spiritual and religious belief, the highest authority to determining sacredness is man and no less important or divine for it. Consciousness by itself becomes a universal truth as it is the universe becoming aware of itself.

Yes, if we can handle the philosophical digression, I believe that consciousness in and of itself is of a higher moral order: worth preserving in aggregate, but like any organism growing unconstrained, sometimes you have to prune the tree for the remainder to be healthy. I don't consider myself a fit judge of who gets to be pruned though: that way lies megalomania.

I suppose this logically extends to fetuses lacking definable consciousness, so that the argument of preserving it doesn't precisely apply, but they represent future conscious humans.

This leads to another argument: quality of life. It is important that consciousness persist, but for that to happen it needs to (a) be of sufficient quality to make correct decisions that will lead to its persistence, (b) have some intrinsic benefit or value through culture, science, etc. Therefore in some cases not having a child is a net positive.

Again, I don't consider myself a fit judge of who is and is not worthy.

Edited by Fighteer on Nov 29th 2020 at 5:35:51 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#341653: Nov 29th 2020 at 2:33:20 PM

So when did abortion become an acceptable topic on this thread again?

Disgusted, but not surprised
Imca (Veteran)
#341654: Nov 29th 2020 at 2:35:40 PM

The problem with those methods is there permanence, if you had told me for instance even 5 years ago "yes your going to want kids" then she would not have believed you... would have been more then willing to go for those... there is a damn good reason those methods require you to go to a psychiatrist first and are so hard to get.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#341655: Nov 29th 2020 at 2:43:31 PM

[up][up]I didn't realize abortion was a banned topic on OTC (or i forgot), if I had I probably wouldn't have steered the topic in that direction.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#341656: Nov 29th 2020 at 2:48:36 PM

I believe the ban is just on topics specifically about it, not it being discussed in existing topics.

[up]X5 You’re missing out both people not in a relationship and people unable to access permanent means of birth control.

Edited by Silasw on Nov 29th 2020 at 10:49:19 AM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#341657: Nov 29th 2020 at 3:02:53 PM

Yes, the ban is specifically about thread topics, not topics on threads, as I understand it.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#341658: Nov 29th 2020 at 3:05:17 PM

Still, let's keep it civil and calm. Let's not give the mods a hard time.

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#341659: Nov 29th 2020 at 3:05:44 PM

I should point out that abortions+live births doesn't equal total pregnancies. You've missed out miscarriages, though I doubt there's going to be statistics for that lying around as easily.

thok That's Dr. Title, thank you! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Non-Canon
That's Dr. Title, thank you!
#341660: Nov 29th 2020 at 3:10:49 PM

[up] The CDC has records for fetus losses, which suggests they are on roughly the order of magnitude of the number of abortions in the US. Here is some data, albeit from 2009.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#341661: Nov 29th 2020 at 3:14:27 PM

Biden has announced an all female senior communications team. On my phone so can't provide link right now.

Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#341662: Nov 29th 2020 at 3:16:28 PM

I was about to comment that the "1 in 5" number was faulty because it only compared live births and abortions without factoring in still births and miscarriages.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#341663: Nov 29th 2020 at 3:38:43 PM

I must honestly admit, I just learned about something called "Contingent Election"

And this article made it sound like this could really happen

https://andrewmtanner.medium.com/is-america-heading-for-a-contingent-election-2865d81f5f8f

Is this just baseless fearmongering?

Edited by Forenperser on Nov 29th 2020 at 1:11:37 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#341664: Nov 29th 2020 at 3:43:55 PM

[up]Yeah, it's fearmongering. Any attempt by the supreme court to say that Biden is not "necessarily" president-elect is nothing short of a coup, and I think they have enough self-preservation to know better.

My musician page
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#341665: Nov 29th 2020 at 3:46:14 PM

They haven't shown any desire or inclination to do that either.

thok That's Dr. Title, thank you! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Non-Canon
That's Dr. Title, thank you!
#341666: Nov 29th 2020 at 3:50:09 PM

Gorsuch+Roberts+the three liberal justices would stop any such case: Roberts because he still cares about the court's reputation, and Gorsuch because overturning the Electoral College with literally no evidence of fraud would be anathema to his originalist philosophy.

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#341667: Nov 29th 2020 at 3:55:14 PM

Also they probably don't want to be the first in line for an angry mob.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#341668: Nov 29th 2020 at 3:56:11 PM

Also there’s even more baseless fearmongering further down that blog post, they declaring that Biden won’t run in 2024 and that Harris will be challenged from the left (likely by AOC).

You seem to have stumbled across a random blog post, not an actual source of news or political commentary.

I honestly wouldn't even call what you found an article.

Edited by Silasw on Nov 29th 2020 at 11:56:54 AM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#341669: Nov 29th 2020 at 3:56:27 PM

This person thinks the US should also split into autonomous regions so I'd say this is another form of doomcasting.

The Pennsylvania House Speaker has said he won't take up a bill that changes how they appoint other electors, as have other GOP state legislatures.

Now, that doesn't mean Trump isn't doing real harm to US democracy. But it's not, at this point, the election will being stolen from Biden, but the more long term impacts on the GOP base and the Republican Party that worry me.

Edited by nova92 on Nov 29th 2020 at 5:04:42 AM

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#341670: Nov 29th 2020 at 3:57:54 PM

Wait they’re one of the people who wants to break the US into smaller nations? Haven't several of those been linked to Russian intelligence activities?

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#341671: Nov 29th 2020 at 4:04:03 PM

I can't speak for seperatist movements in the rest of the country, but some of the people who keep advocating for California to break off from the Union are linked to Russia.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#341672: Nov 29th 2020 at 4:08:37 PM

x4[up] It's because I was just introduced to the term "Contingental Vote", googled it and picked the first major article to pop up.

So I guess it isn't even really a thing?

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#341673: Nov 29th 2020 at 4:09:27 PM

[up][up][up] Scroll down to the bottom of their medium feed and you'll find it. [1]

The path to saving the United States in a form recognizable to the Founders lies in these actions. The United States federal government should be divided into six autonomous regions, each given their share of all existing federal assets and obligations and the right to interpret the Constitution according to the will of voters in that area.

Edited by nova92 on Nov 29th 2020 at 4:09:39 AM

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#341674: Nov 29th 2020 at 4:09:50 PM

2024 is too far for us to make projections. Let's see how Biden handles the next four years before thinking of getting him a successor.

Wake me up at your own risk.
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#341675: Nov 29th 2020 at 4:19:28 PM

[up]x2 Ah the classic "Split Rome" Strategy of Governance... It has never worked in the history of attempting it.

Also considering that its apparently tied to Russia, its clear that the people who advocate it don't have America's interests at heart.


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