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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#341501: Nov 27th 2020 at 2:42:48 PM

This is not the religious thread, guys.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#341502: Nov 27th 2020 at 2:44:01 PM

Back in topic: Any more news about Biden's cabinet?

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#341503: Nov 27th 2020 at 2:49:28 PM

Maybe this is slightly off-topic, but when I ran across this old article/photo, it really got me thinking.

https://share.america.gov/former-presidents-help-when-disasters-strike/

Now I would be the last guy on Earth to defend any of the Bushes. Bush Jr. in particular still belongs before a tribunal, as far as I'm concerned. But Republicans and Democrats, for all their differences, used to at least have some level of respect for one another. Hell, Bush Jr. is still close personal friends with both the Clinton's and the Obama's.

When did the discourse get this ugly? I cannot, on my life, imagine Trump being anywhere near as respectful to any Democrat ever.

Edited by Forenperser on Nov 27th 2020 at 12:03:20 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
clemont107 Mega Togekiss?! from Land of Missed Opportunities (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Mega Togekiss?!
#341504: Nov 27th 2020 at 2:54:39 PM

[up]Donnie Tinyhands has never been respectful to anyone but himself. He was a Jerkass since (or even before) becoming an adult, and that would never change.

As for Bush Jr. he was an exception. Most Republicans (except him, Romney, McCain and a few others) never had respect for Democrats.

"Wow, no Mega Togekiss in Legends Z-A. Or any non-Froslass new Sinnoh Mega Evolutions. Round of applause, everybody." - Dawn
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#341505: Nov 27th 2020 at 2:54:40 PM

[up][up] Question answers itself. Discourse got this ugly between Bush Jr. and Trump.

So. Obama. Republicans have supported terrible policies for decades, but Obama is when Republicans turned from friendly rivals to embittered nemeses fighting tooth and nail to destroy us and everything we stand for.

Republicans were so outraged that a black man was elected President that they threw the entire notion of compromise and mutual governance into a dumpster and lit it on fire.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 27th 2020 at 2:55:31 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#341506: Nov 27th 2020 at 3:09:15 PM

It was already getting pretty bad under the Clinton presidency, mostly because Newt Gingrich decided that republicans should act like spoiled brats and not care about actually governing the country unless they 100% got their way. He wrote the playbook Mitch is using now in the senate.

Of note, Gingrich was one of the first republicans to welcome trump into the party and was for a time in consideration to be his running mate.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Nov 27th 2020 at 8:14:06 AM

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#341507: Nov 27th 2020 at 3:14:32 PM

Speaking of whom, Gingrich just today is saying the election is stolen and full of fraud and comparing it to Quincy Adams vs Jackson.

clemont107 Mega Togekiss?! from Land of Missed Opportunities (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Mega Togekiss?!
#341508: Nov 27th 2020 at 3:21:20 PM

[up]I think he is just getting too crazy because his best buddy Donald lost. He's 77 already and that unbelievably angry attitude may have shortened his lifespan, so he may have not much left in him.

"Wow, no Mega Togekiss in Legends Z-A. Or any non-Froslass new Sinnoh Mega Evolutions. Round of applause, everybody." - Dawn
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#341509: Nov 27th 2020 at 3:24:09 PM

Honestly, it's almost pointless to argue which GOP member is the worst between all, but I think Gingrich in particular is especially loathsome on both a political and personal level. He handed his wife her divorce papers while she was in the hospital dying, for fuck's sake.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#341510: Nov 27th 2020 at 3:26:07 PM

[up] While I'm always for ripping into Republicans, that particular incident is not entirely correct. We should always stick to the facts, we are not them.

https://www.factcheck.org/2011/12/the-gingrich-divorce-myth/

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
clemont107 Mega Togekiss?! from Land of Missed Opportunities (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Mega Togekiss?!
#341511: Nov 27th 2020 at 3:32:49 PM

[up]It wouldn't be surprising if one of the Republicans would want to divorce his/her spouse if she/he was dying though.

Edited by clemont107 on Nov 27th 2020 at 6:33:05 AM

"Wow, no Mega Togekiss in Legends Z-A. Or any non-Froslass new Sinnoh Mega Evolutions. Round of applause, everybody." - Dawn
nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#341512: Nov 27th 2020 at 3:35:20 PM

Lots of posting happened while I was sleeping, but wanted to add my two cents to the mix.

I've said this before, but one thing that I think people keep on conflating, here on the forum and elsewhere, are views and responsibilities/obligations of Republican and Democratic voters and politicians.

For Democratic voters, this by Draghinazzo sums up my views:

And one of those consequences is that some people, especially those who have been harmed by Trump's policies, aren't gonna look favorably upon you for what you have done, and that's perfectly justifiable. Why should they just let bygones be bygones if a lot of those people aren't even willing to admit what they did wrong in the first place? That's not unity or healing, that's just a false peace based on a lie.
[awesome]

Democratic politicians, on the other hand, need to get elected and represent more than only the people who voted for them. It's both a moral and a strategic necessity. That means that they need to continue to push policies that also benefit Trump voters or areas that voted for Trump (and properly market those policies so that people know Democrats want to help them). They need to figure out how to do better outreach, especially to non-voting or Republican-leaning minority communities.


But that's about how to reach out to Republican voters. It's fine and dandy to talk about bipartisanship, and there are places where Democratic politicians need to get some Republican politicians on board in order to pass laws and they should be working on that.

But people say "Republicans don't want bipartisanship" for a very good reason. Every single year, the comparatively moderate elements of the party in Congress are being purged and replaced with greater extremists. Retiring 'moderates' are being replaced by people who tout their allegiance to Trump. Primary voters are punishing politicians who are seen as insufficiently conservative, so they're tacking to the right or losing to more extreme candidates.

The Republican Party in Congress is significantly more extreme than it was even 4 years ago. That's on top of the obstructionist nature of Mitch McConnell. So where/how are Democrats supposed to compromise with them?


Newt Gingrich I will remember forever for the time when he suggested poor children should be used as janitors to teach them personal responsibility (not an exact quote but the general gist is there). It was the first time I started paying attention to politics.

Edited by nova92 on Nov 27th 2020 at 3:37:03 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#341513: Nov 27th 2020 at 3:37:11 PM

Newt Gingrich's name sounds like a name a really unsubtle author trying to make a point

"Get it,he's slimy like a newt and he's rich!"

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#341514: Nov 27th 2020 at 3:39:27 PM

To be more specific, the report clarifies that Gingrich's wife was in the hospital recovering from a benign tumor (so she wasn't on her deathbed), and that at the time they were already undergoing divorce procedures and what happened by most accounts suggest they had an argument pertaining to the divorce.

I say this mostly based on the facts presented because I was aware Gingrich had contested the story, but I don't trust his word at all.

The reason I found that original story believable is because Gingrich has a noted mysogynistic streak, including using his understanding of lions' social dynamics to justify male privilege in human society (a questionable take at best) and cheating on his other spouse as well. But obviously that doesn't mean the original story was accurate.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Nov 27th 2020 at 8:41:00 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#341515: Nov 27th 2020 at 4:24:11 PM

He was a slimeball in government and has been a slimeball since.

Dude is very very scummy.

Edit:

Didn't read that before I posted.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Nov 27th 2020 at 4:25:23 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#341516: Nov 27th 2020 at 4:24:56 PM

Didn't we just establish she wasn't literally "dying in the hospital"?

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#341517: Nov 27th 2020 at 4:25:17 PM

Newt gave his wife divorce papers when she was dying in the hospital.

She was recovering from a benign tumor, apparently, so she wasn't dying. They were also already in the middle of divorce proceedings so he didn't drop the news on her right then and there.

He's still pretty scummy though, i agree with that.

RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#341518: Nov 27th 2020 at 4:30:26 PM

Old Grinchy is a judge on the Supreme Court, right? Or am I getting names mixed up?

ASAB: All Sponsors Are Bad.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#341519: Nov 27th 2020 at 4:32:46 PM

You might be thinking of Gorsuch. Gingrich is not on the SC, thank god.

clemont107 Mega Togekiss?! from Land of Missed Opportunities (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Mega Togekiss?!
#341520: Nov 27th 2020 at 4:44:01 PM

[up]I have no doubt that perhaps during the Bush administration the Republicans would have wanted Gingrich on the SC, and perhaps due to unfortunate (for them) occurrences and Gingrich's increasing age, he was unable to be confirmed.

"Wow, no Mega Togekiss in Legends Z-A. Or any non-Froslass new Sinnoh Mega Evolutions. Round of applause, everybody." - Dawn
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#341521: Nov 27th 2020 at 4:44:50 PM

Then what should the Democratic strategy for continuing to win elections after COVID be?
]

Focus on downballot races. Specifically, state legislatures and governors in states where the NPVIC has not yet made it through.

I predict that once the NPVIC becomes a thing, it'll prove impossible to reverse and the EC will go bye bye.

nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#341522: Nov 27th 2020 at 4:53:36 PM

[up] Also keep on pressuring the three Democratic trifecta states (Virginia, Maine, Nevada) that haven't passed the NPVIC to do so ASAP.


What happens to COVID relief if Republicans keep the Senate? The difference between their $500 billion dollar proposal and House Democrats' $2.2 trillion dollar bill is a yawning chasm.

Republicans don't want to give state and local governments, which are in dire straits, aid. They don't want stimulus checks. They want to slash the extra unemployment payments offered in the CARES Act by half. They want liability protections for businesses to prevent them from getting sued if their workers get COVID while on the job.

And to be very clear, this isn't a Trump issue. The White House at one point offered $1.8 trillion, which Mitch McConnell said he wasn't going to put it on the Senate floor.

I write this in real frustration because there are people out there who think Republicans keeping the Senate is somehow better for people, "fostering unity" and for dealing with COVID. If Republicans keep the Senate, Mitch McConnell is going to bleed Democrats dry to get help to the people, if he lets any aid pass at all.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#341523: Nov 27th 2020 at 5:15:10 PM

The recount in Milwaukee county is done. Trump paid 3 million bucks...to increase Biden's vote count by 132.[lol]

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#341524: Nov 27th 2020 at 5:21:19 PM

Money well spent. [lol]

Someone joked that between all the Trump demanded audits and recounts that Biden is the first person to win Georgia three times in a single election.

nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#341525: Nov 27th 2020 at 5:59:08 PM

New York Times: McKinsey Proposed Paying Pharmacy Companies Rebates for OxyContin Overdoses

When Purdue Pharma agreed last month to plead guilty to criminal charges involving OxyContin, the Justice Department noted the role an unidentified consulting company had played in driving sales of the addictive painkiller even as public outrage grew over widespread overdoses.

Documents released last week in a federal bankruptcy court in New York show that the adviser was McKinsey & Company, the world's most prestigious consulting firm. The 160 pages include emails and slides revealing new details about McKinsey's advice to the Sackler family, Purdue's billionaire owners, and the firm's now notorious plan to "turbocharge" OxyContin sales at a time when opioid abuse had already killed hundreds of thousands of Americans.

In a 2017 presentation, according to the records, which were filed in court on behalf of multiple state attorneys general, McKinsey laid out several options to shore up sales. One was to give Purdue's distributors a rebate for every OxyContin overdose attributable to pills they sold.

The presentation estimated how many customers of companies including CVS and Anthem might overdose. It projected that in 2019, for example, 2,484 CVS customers would either have an overdose or develop an opioid use disorder. A rebate of $14,810 per "event" meant that Purdue would pay CVS $36.8 million that year.

CVS and Anthem have recently been among McKinsey's biggest clients. Press officers for the two companies said they had never received rebates from Purdue for customers who had overdosed on OxyContin.


Though McKinsey has not been charged by the federal government or sued, it began to worry about legal repercussions in 2018, according to the documents. After Massachusetts filed a lawsuit against Purdue, Martin Elling, a leader for McKinsey's North American pharmaceutical practice, wrote to another senior partner, Arnab Ghatak: "It probably makes sense to have a quick conversation with the risk committee to see if we should be doing anything" other than "eliminating all our documents and emails. Suspect not but as things get tougher there someone might turn to us."

Mr. Ghatak, who also advised Purdue, replied: "Thanks for the heads up. Will do."

It is not known whether consultants at the firm went on to destroy any records.


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