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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#340801: Nov 23rd 2020 at 9:37:15 AM

My opinion is that Trump is a Nazi and it says the same thing that Wolfenstein: The New Colossus and Captain America: The Winter Soldier were willing to say aloud. "There is a Nazi-esque undercurrent to American racism and political thought."

Probably best to move this to Political Thread.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Nov 23rd 2020 at 9:38:03 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#340802: Nov 23rd 2020 at 9:39:40 AM

[up] Again, can we maybe not conflate fascism and Nazism? He's a fascist, but I wouldn't say he's a Nazi.

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#340803: Nov 23rd 2020 at 9:40:59 AM

I normally use Nazi instead of fascist when the fascism takes on a distinct racial element, as opposed to say, Franco Fascism.

Which Trump qualifies on.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
KZN02 The Master of Tediousness (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
The Master of Tediousness
#340804: Nov 23rd 2020 at 9:41:33 AM

What makes me curious is that I don't think I've seen any conservative bring up pardoning Snowden or Assange if that somehow will help Trump or at least being a thorn on the Biden administration.

Edited by KZN02 on Nov 23rd 2020 at 9:41:50 AM

With a '0', not an 'O'
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#340805: Nov 23rd 2020 at 9:43:40 AM

[up][up] Which already doesn't work because racism isn't limited to Nazism and Franco is generally not considered a fascist by scholars due to his sidelining the actual fascists of Spain in facour of an arch-conservative regime.

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#340806: Nov 23rd 2020 at 9:43:58 AM

Biden will nominate Alejandro Mayorkas to be Secretary of Homeland Security.

He'll be the first Latino to hold this position. An NBC correspondant said, "Mayorkas has been the front runner for DHS mainly because, sources say, the incoming administration wants someone with immigration experience (rather than legal, cyber, intel, management, etc) due to the large amount of work to be done in untangling Trump’s immigration legacy."

TitanJump Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Singularity
#340807: Nov 23rd 2020 at 9:48:04 AM

Trump is neither a Fascist or a Nazist.

He is a "Trumpist". A whole new category all of his own.

And that is all he ever will be.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#340808: Nov 23rd 2020 at 9:56:10 AM

“Maybe you do not care much about the future of the Republican Party. You should. Conservatives will always be with us. If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. The will reject democracy.” ― David Frum, Trumpocracy: The Corruption of the American Republic

This summarizes the past 20 or so years.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#340809: Nov 23rd 2020 at 10:00:17 AM

The problem is that Nazism is very hard to pin down as an ideology rather than a historical group.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#340810: Nov 23rd 2020 at 10:04:53 AM

I think that is incorrect but it's also not quite on-topic. These ideology debates should go to the ideology threads ... you may want to make one to discuss Nazism.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#340811: Nov 23rd 2020 at 10:05:31 AM

I find it helps to be in my state where they just wear swastikas and call themselves Nazis.

Neo-Confeds are just the more open ones.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Nov 23rd 2020 at 10:06:00 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
TitanJump Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Singularity
#340813: Nov 23rd 2020 at 10:06:52 AM

So have Trump given up in his pointless and highly undermining of the constitution yet?

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#340814: Nov 23rd 2020 at 10:07:50 AM

...

What do you think?

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#340815: Nov 23rd 2020 at 10:08:35 AM

Trump’s ideology, as much as he has one, is nowhere near coherent enough to be called Nazism or Fascism. You can call him a Nazi or a Facist if you like, but you’re just devaluing those words when you do.

They should have sent a poet.
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#340816: Nov 23rd 2020 at 10:10:03 AM

Not like the things they describe aren't worthless either way. But becoming an accidental nazi is kind of hilarious.

Edited by Blueace on Nov 23rd 2020 at 3:10:16 PM

Wake me up at your own risk.
TitanJump Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Singularity
#340817: Nov 23rd 2020 at 10:12:31 AM

I take it as a "Fat Chance." then.

So how much, in percentage, can Biden undo of Trump's damage that has been made for these last four years?

Edited by TitanJump on Nov 23rd 2020 at 7:12:41 PM

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#340818: Nov 23rd 2020 at 10:13:10 AM

Depends on how these Georgia runoffs work out.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#340819: Nov 23rd 2020 at 10:13:37 AM

Trump’s ideology, as much as he has one, is nowhere near coherent enough to be called Nazism or Fascism. You can call him a Nazi or a Facist if you like, but you’re just devaluing those words when you do.

This is true about Nazism but Fascism as a whole has never been intellectually coherent, this argument doesn't work for the latter.

Trump's irrationalism and intellectual weakness is very much in common with self-described fascist leaders of the past.

Depends on how these Georgia runoffs work out.

Indeed, though it's also true that there is quite a bit Biden can do with E Os. So even with a Republican Senate Biden could get to work repairing damages.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Nov 23rd 2020 at 10:14:39 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#340820: Nov 23rd 2020 at 10:14:51 AM

I am not convinced that the QA'ers will decide to stay home for the Georgia runoffs, at least not in sufficient numbers to sway them. That's a hopeful narrative that gets spun by Democrats and that continues to disappoint election after election.

If we don't get those two Senate seats, we are in for another mess of gridlock. Heck, it'll be bad enough without 50 Democrats signing up for abolishing the filibuster.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
clemont107 Mega Togekiss?! from Land of Missed Opportunities (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Mega Togekiss?!
#340821: Nov 23rd 2020 at 10:16:33 AM

Biden must not just undo everything Gartrump did these past 4 years, he must also undo everything the Republicans have been doing since the 1970s. He and the Democrats must make sure that there will be no legacy left of the Republican Party well in the future.

"Wow, no Mega Togekiss in Legends Z-A. Or any non-Froslass new Sinnoh Mega Evolutions. Round of applause, everybody." - Dawn
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#340822: Nov 23rd 2020 at 10:16:48 AM

There's been a long historical debate over how premedidated the Holocaust was, and how much of it was the result of sychophantic Nazi officers trying to do what would get them in Hitler's good books. Incompetently stumbling into evil isn't exactly unknown for Fascists.

Most common definitions of fascism identify this direct, deliberate targeting of different racial, religious, or political groups as an element of fascism: Franco and Pinochet had Communists, Hitler had Jews, The BNP has the Muslims - for the explicit purpose of removal if not extermination.

The why others are differentiated and the plans for them are important. Trump does not single out Mexico and China because of a deliberate plan to exterminate them. He does it because they are convenient. Likewise, he will very deliberately compromise with them if it benefits him which is why he does that whiplash of calling blacks thugs in one moment and then saying he's probably the least racist person since Abraham Lincoln.

He does this because he is an abject imbecile. But he still slightly compromises. I am calling working alongside black people compromise - yes, this is a low bar, but Trump has set a World Record in placing bars as low as they can. In comparison, a fascist brooks no compromise if their objective is the political extermination of a group.

Now, if you want to argue that this deliberate targeting may have also been incidental for fascism and in itself is not such strongly correlated a "checklist" of fascism, then that's a whole other discussion. But operating under the most common definition of fascism, this is still an element I would use to defend my argument that Trump himself is not Fascist, and neither are the majority of his followers.

Trump’s ideology, as much as he has one, is nowhere near coherent enough to be called Nazism or Fascism. You can call him a Nazi or a Facist if you like, but you’re just devaluing those words when you do.

I just call him an idiot

Edited by Aszur on Nov 23rd 2020 at 12:18:35 PM

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#340823: Nov 23rd 2020 at 10:18:10 AM

[up][up]It's a bit optimistic to think that much can be accomplished in only four years, don't you think?

My musician page
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#340824: Nov 23rd 2020 at 10:18:14 AM

[up][up][up] If you're going to use a Pokemon, isn't there a Sun/Moon Pokemon that actually looks like Trump?

Edited by sgamer82 on Nov 23rd 2020 at 10:18:22 AM

clemont107 Mega Togekiss?! from Land of Missed Opportunities (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Mega Togekiss?!
#340825: Nov 23rd 2020 at 10:20:55 AM

[up]Unintentionally, there's Yungoos and Gumshoos, whom are actually based on detectives.

"Wow, no Mega Togekiss in Legends Z-A. Or any non-Froslass new Sinnoh Mega Evolutions. Round of applause, everybody." - Dawn

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