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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Ominae Since: Jul, 2010
#340301: Nov 19th 2020 at 11:49:23 PM

First time I saw far-right African-Americans interviewed by OAN.

Alycus Since: Apr, 2018
#340302: Nov 20th 2020 at 12:55:31 AM

NYT Opinion: 'Reach Out to Trump Supporters', They Said. I Tried. I Give Up.

Seventy-three million Americans voted for Donald Trump. He doubled down on all his worst vices, and he was rewarded for it with 10 million more votes than he received in 2016.

The majority of people of color rejected his cruelty and vulgarity. But along with others who voted for Joe Biden, we are now being lectured by a chorus of voices including Pete Buttigieg and Ian Bremmer, to “reach out” to Trump voters and “empathize” with their pain.

This is the same advice that was given after Mr. Trump’s 2016 victory, and for nearly four years, I attempted to take it. Believe me, it’s not worth it.

The Quran asks Muslims to respond to disagreements and arguments “in a better way” and to “repel evil with good.” I tried. “You might not like me, and I might not like you, but we share the same real estate. So, here’s me reaching out across the aisle. American to American,” I said in a video message to Trump supporters published the day after the election.

I really thought it might work. Growing up, I often talked about my Islamic faith with my non-Muslim friends, and I like to think that might have helped to inoculate them from the Islamophobic propaganda and conspiracy theories that later became popular. So I assumed I could win over some Trump supporters whose frustrations and grievances had been manipulated by those intent on seeing people like me as invaders intent on replacing them.

So in late 2016, I told my speaking agency to book me for events in the states where Mr. Trump won. I wanted to talk to the people the media calls “real Americans” from the “heartland” — which is of course America’s synonym for white people, Mr. Trump’s most fervent base. Over the next four years I gave more than a dozen talks to universities, companies and a variety of faith-based communities.

My standard speech was about how to “build a multicultural coalition of the willing.” My message was that diverse communities, including white Trump supporters, could work together to create a future where all of our children would have an equal shot at the American dream. I assured the audiences that I was not their enemy.

I reminded them that those who are now considered white, such as Irish Catholics, Eastern European Jews, Greeks and Italians, were once the boogeyman. I warned them that supporting white nationalism and Mr. Trump, in particular, would be self-destructive, an act of self-immolation, that will neither help their families or America become great again.

And I listened. Those in the audience who supported Mr. Trump came up to me and assured me they weren’t racist. They often said they’d enjoyed the talk, if not my politics. Still, not one told me they’d wavered in their support for him. Instead, they repeated conspiracy theories and Fox News talking points about “crooked Hillary.” Others made comments like: “You’re a good, moderate Muslim. How come others aren’t like you?”

In Ohio, I spent 90 minutes on a drive to the airport with a retired Trump supporter. We were cordial to each other, we made jokes and we shared stories about our families. But neither of us changed our outlook. “They’ll never take my guns. Ever,” he told me, explaining that his Facebook feed was filled with articles about how Mrs. Clinton and Democrats would kill the Second Amendment and steal his guns. Although he didn’t like some of Mr. Trump’s “tone” and comments, he didn’t believe he was a racist “in his heart.” I’m not a cardiologist, so I wasn’t qualified to challenge that.

In 2017, I was invited by the Aspen Institute — which hosts a festival known for attracting the wealthy and powerful — to discuss racism in America. At a private dinner after the event, I was introduced to a donor who I learned was a Trump supporter. As soon as I said “white privilege,” she began shooting me passive-aggressive quips about the virtues of meritocracy and hard work. She recommended I read “Hillbilly Elegy” — the best-selling book that has been criticized by those living in Appalachia as glorified poverty porn promoting simplistic stereotypes about a diverse region.

I’ve even tried and failed to have productive conversations with Muslims who voted for Mr. Trump. Some love him for the tax cuts. Others listen only to Fox News, say “both sides” are the same, or believe he hasn’t bombed Muslim countries. (They’re wrong.) Many believe they are the “good immigrants,” as they chase whiteness and run away from Blackness, all the way to the suburbs. I can’t make people realize they have Black and brown skin and will never be accepted as white.

I did my part. What was my reward? Listening to Mr. Trump’s base chant, “Send her back!” in reference to Representative Ilhan Omar, a Black Muslim woman, who came to America as a refugee. I saw the Republican Party transform the Mc Closkeys into victims, even though the wealthy St. Louis couple illegally brandished firearms against peaceful B.L.M. protesters. Their bellicosity was rewarded with a prime time slot at the Republican National Convention where they warned about “chaos” in the suburbs being invaded by people of color. Their speech would have fit well in “The Birth of a Nation."

We cannot help people who refuse to help themselves. Mr. Trump is an extension of their id, their culture, their values, their greed. He is their defender and savior. He is their blunt instrument. He is their destructive drug of choice.

Don’t waste your time reaching out to Trump voters as I did. Instead, invest your time organizing your community, registering new voters and supporting candidates who reflect progressive values that uplift everyone, not just those who wear MAGA hats, in local and state elections. Work also to protect Americans against lies and conspiracy theories churned out by the right-wing media and political ecosystem. One step would be to continue pressuring social media giants like Twitter and Facebook to deplatform hatemongers, such as Steve Bannon, and censor disinformation. It’s not enough, but it’s a start.

Or, you can just watch “The Queen’s Gambit” on Netflix while downing your favorite pint of ice cream and call it a day.

Just as in 2016, I don’t need Trump supporters to be humiliated to feel great again. I want them to have health insurance, decent-paying jobs and security for their family. I do not want them to suffer, but I also refuse to spend any more time trying to understand and help the architects of my oppression.

I will move forward along with the majority who want progress, equality and justice for all Americans. If Trump supporters decide they want the same, they can always reach out to me. They know where to find me. Ahead of them.

Long story short: Trump supporters can occasionally be friendly with you if you disagree with them, but they will never listen to you, believe you, or support you. You really are better off avoiding them than trying to convince them.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#340303: Nov 20th 2020 at 1:10:36 AM

[up]All those wasted years. The op-ed writer really would have been better off just chilling with Netflix instead of trying to reach out to Trumpists.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#340304: Nov 20th 2020 at 1:13:02 AM

The problem is they are 40% of the country.

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#340305: Nov 20th 2020 at 1:46:23 AM

Federal judges are in until death, retirement or impeachment. Impeachment ain't happening.

Ayasugi Since: Oct, 2010
#340306: Nov 20th 2020 at 4:31:23 AM

[up]So watch for tweets from Trump calling on specific judges to resign because they're too BIASED or SENILE to have the job?

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#340307: Nov 20th 2020 at 5:48:50 AM

[up][up][up]Frankly there's nothing we can do about that right now. All we can do is try to make sure their children and children's children don't fall into the same propaganda hole.

i'm tired, my friend
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#340308: Nov 20th 2020 at 5:49:36 AM

The issue is that trying to reach trumpist means nothing wth trump and is polarizing machine at the helm, is like trying to take someone into rehab while outside there is free heroin.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#340309: Nov 20th 2020 at 5:52:22 AM

More power to the people willing to engage on an emotional, personal level with every MAGA and deprogram them. I'm not willing to do it, and I would imagine that the vast majority of people urging us to "show understanding and willingness to listen" aren't either.

It's been fun.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#340310: Nov 20th 2020 at 5:53:18 AM

I agree with the article that registering new voters and community organizing are the way forward. Any Trump or Trump-leaning people you can get along the way is a bonus more than anything.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#340311: Nov 20th 2020 at 6:17:57 AM

We have listened. We do understand.

They aren't being misunderstood. They're just wrong. And there's not much we can do to fix that if they aren't willing to listen and understand. I don't know how to explain to someone that they should care about other people, and even if I did, it won't do a lick of good if that person's tuning me out.

People saying that Democrats need to do more to reach out to Republicans are conservative predators trying to take advantage of the left's empathy. Conservatives know what liberals care about and they are willing to say whatever they have to in order to make liberals feel bad about opposing them. They co-opt liberal rhetoric about compassion, about privilege, they even steal our terminology (Blue Lives Matter, anyone?) all for the sake of convincing us not to come at them as hard as they come at us.

And the Left has difficulty grasping that because "But that would make them hypocrites!" And. Yeah. They are proudly hypocrites. They think that life is a ferocious competition where only a few may thrive by standing atop the bones of those they've conquered. To them, there's not enough to go around, and they intend to destroy us so they can "win the game". They don't care about fairness. They only care about hitting us as hard as they can and then stopping us from hitting them back until they get the chance to hit us as hard as they can again.

Democrats see this as a debate, but Republicans see it as a fight. Kill or be killed. And they are extremely pragmatic in how they carry out that fight.

That doesn't mean we need to stoop to their level. Our goal is to drag this country, including them, kicking and screaming into something better. But stop giving them the benefit of the doubt just because they flash puppy dog eyes between haymakers.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#340312: Nov 20th 2020 at 6:38:31 AM

[up]Well said. [awesome]

i'm tired, my friend
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#340313: Nov 20th 2020 at 6:39:44 AM

Side thought: On the 72 million that voted for Trump, I do wonder how many were flat-out cult members and how many were more the indifferent, "well, he's not a Democrat" types. Like, I know some people who say they don't pay attention to his tweets or rally speeches- all that filters through is what they read in the paper or see in brief local news recaps. They're the kind of people who say things like "He may not be the most refined politician" or "I don't agree with everything he says but he's getting stuff done", etc.

And my response is, uh, you should be knowledgeable about the bile he spews, because there's some horrifying stuff that would, if you're not already far gone, dissuade you from supporting him.

Edited by speedyboris on Nov 20th 2020 at 6:43:28 AM

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#340314: Nov 20th 2020 at 6:55:27 AM

One more thing I wanna add: note how the onus is always on the Left to understand where the other side is coming from. No one ever says this shit to conservatives. It's like they subconsciously realize that conservatives have no interest in views other than their own but refuse to connect the dots.

i'm tired, my friend
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#340315: Nov 20th 2020 at 7:05:27 AM

There are certainly no conservative pundits audibly telling their peers to try to compromise with liberals and figure out what's motivating them.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#340316: Nov 20th 2020 at 7:07:46 AM

Communication's a two-way street. If we're expected to show empathy and understanding for Trumpists, we gotta at least have some kind of proof and assurance that they will show the same to us.

Disgusted, but not surprised
RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#340317: Nov 20th 2020 at 7:08:17 AM

I feel like it literally is "just waste your time trying to reach out to people who refuse to acknowledge your point of view on a fundamental level, until we can get back into power in four years".

No one wants to admit that people can be just plainly, entirely, willfully and maliciously wrong. But they can be and they are.

It's been fun.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#340318: Nov 20th 2020 at 7:13:30 AM

It's a running trend with how we view majority/minority rights in this country. The burden is always on the oppressed, marginalized, or outright victimized to avoid that thing happening; it's never on the people oppressing, marginalizing, or victimizing them to stop doing that.

The whites have spoken and they've decided that racism is bad and that black people really should stop letting racism happen to them. And rape victims should probably learn self-defense 'cause who else is going to stop rapes from happening?

Victim-blaming is one of many bad faith tools in the Conservative Toolbag.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#340319: Nov 20th 2020 at 7:14:47 AM

Yeah, the implication seems to always be that conservatives have no real interest in reaching out or understanding the needs of the rest of the country so it's basically all up to everyone else to cater to them and their needs.

Which is...more than a little tiresome. And even from a strictly pragmatic POV, it doesn't really seem like meaningfully chipping away at trump's support among his base is really that viable.

I feel like it literally is "just waste your time trying to reach out to people who refuse to acknowledge your point of view on a fundamental level, until we can get back into power in four years".

No one wants to admit that people can be just plainly, entirely, willfully and maliciously wrong. But they can be and they are.

I think the issue is that "40% of the country is at best, permissive of inhumanity and corruption, at worst actively wants that" is never going to be an easy pill to swallow for anyone. It's a really awful thing to have to accept and live with.

Personally, especially after this last election I don't find "you can't throw 40% of the country away" to be a meaningful argument anymore. Yeah, they aren't going away anytime soon, but there are no real viable options to deal with that divide in the short term with the propaganda and disinformation, and no way for reconciliation with people who aren't even willing to admit they did something wrong in the first place. That's why I said voter registration and community organizing are the only realistic path forward.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Nov 20th 2020 at 12:16:38 PM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#340320: Nov 20th 2020 at 7:26:59 AM

I think the issue is that "40% of the country is at best, permissive of inhumanity and corruption, at worst actively wants that" is never going to be an easy pill to swallow for anyone. It's a really awful thing to have to accept and live with.

It should be noted that they live in a world of absolutes. That's one of the many points where listening and understanding can help you to see where they're coming from, but it doesn't change the fact that they're wrong, and that nothing will change if they don't listen and understand.

Liberals live in a world filled with evil, and we seek to combat, overcome, and ultimately defeat that evil. Conservatives also live in a world filled with evil, but their mindset is that evil cannot be combatted, overcome, or defeated. The world is a gross, wicked, horrifying place and the most you can do is to try and take care of the people you personally care about. Evil's existence can never be stopped.

Conservatives live in fear that if they don't climb the hierarchy, if they don't step on people to grab at wealth and prestige and power and privilege, then someone else is just going to step on them to do the same. The hierarchy is absolute and if you aren't fighting tooth and nail to put your hand on the plate, someone else's hand will be there instead. If you aren't trying to be a shark, then you're a minnow. They don't want to be minnows. They are terrified of being minnows.

They're permissive of inhumanity and corruption because they don't believe that preventing inhumanity and corruption is possible. No matter what you do, no matter how smart you think you're being, there will always be shooters. There will always be rapists. There will always be terrorists. The world is full of evil and that evil can never be stopped; evil people will always exist and will always find ways to do evil, and all you can do is protect yourself as best you can.

You see how this translates to a mindset that, therefore, when evil is done, it reflects a failure on the part of the victim. Rapists gonna rape, there will always be evil in the world, so if a rape happened then someone must not have lived up to the responsibility everyone has of defending themselves from evil.

And they think that we're extremely naive for thinking that things like telling people "Hey, don't rape!" will actually prevent rapes from happening. Even though, statistically, there are actual studies to show that it does. Conservatives are convinced that they've accepted the "ugly reality" of how the world works. But what they've really done is given up on society.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 20th 2020 at 7:29:48 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#340321: Nov 20th 2020 at 7:29:36 AM

Is it really 40% of the country, or 40% of voters? Maybe that's a Distinction Without a Difference, but it seems a valid question.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#340322: Nov 20th 2020 at 7:31:53 AM

[up] It's a distinction without a difference. If you don't vote (by choice), you don't get a say in how the country is run, so your opinion doesn't matter.

[up][up] Moreover, if the world is so corrupt and evil, why not get in on that? Conservatives often view people who don't cheat to the maximum extent possible as suckers.

Edited by Fighteer on Nov 20th 2020 at 10:33:34 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#340323: Nov 20th 2020 at 7:33:20 AM

Conservatives essentially have a zero-sum view of the world.

Disgusted, but not surprised
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#340324: Nov 20th 2020 at 7:43:06 AM

They're also convinced that liberals are exactly the same as them, we just pretend not to be and lie about it for political clout.

That's one of the reasons they got so mad with Kavanaugh, they couldn't believe that we were actually trying to follow through on a rape claim, those kind of things are supposed to just supposed to be political mud-slinging with no real consequences. But rape isn't an attack ad, it's a serious crime. They were seriously pissed off at us for investigating a credible rape claim, like we were the assholes who were breaking the rules by actually doing something about it and "trying to ruin a man's life", instead of just throwing insults around with no weight behind them.

Remember what a lot of the rhetoric was around that? "Everyone does it, why are you getting angry over this time?" "If you actually try and kick out anyone who's done something like that, every single person in government would be out of a job." Except that's NOT TRUE. They THINK it's true, because they're ALL the kind of assholes who would do shit like that, and they're convinced that it's just normal behavior. Maybe something naughty to be ashamed of but then immediately brushed off as ultimately harmless, definitely not something to be locked up for.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Nov 20th 2020 at 8:44:37 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#340325: Nov 20th 2020 at 7:44:32 AM

The zero-sum hierarchical worldview also influences the anxiety Conservatives feel towards minorities. The liberal objective is to flatten the pyramids. We want to lift women's rights up to be equal to men's, LGBT rights up to be equal to cis-het, minority rights to be equal to whites', etc.

Conservatives live in constant terror of this objective because they're convinced that the universe runs on hierarchies. They don't think flattening the pyramids is a real thing that can be done, and they're pretty sure we don't think so either. They see gains by other demographics as attempts to claw them down from the peak of the pyramid and put someone else up there instead.

To a Conservative, when minorities gain rights, whites lose rights. When women gain rights, men lose rights. When LGBT people gain rights, cis-hets lose rights. They live in existential terror of a universe where white people are enslaved and made to pick cotton, men can't vote and are forced to be homemakers, and heterosexual marriages are banned.

They know the system is unfair, but they don't believe that fairness is real. Someone has to be on top. Right now, it's them. And they want to keep it that way.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

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