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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

clemont107 Mega Togekiss?! from Land of Missed Opportunities (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Mega Togekiss?!
#340201: Nov 19th 2020 at 2:39:04 PM

[up][up][up] And ironically and humorously, it might lead to the conservatives who created said practice losing this year.

"Wow, no Mega Togekiss in Legends Z-A. Or any non-Froslass new Sinnoh Mega Evolutions. Round of applause, everybody." - Dawn
ScubaWolf from South Carolina Since: Feb, 2020
#340202: Nov 19th 2020 at 2:40:39 PM

[up][up] Well if the highest office in the land believes it's true, then that adds credibility to the minds of many, does it not?

"In a move surprising absolutely no one"
Imca (Veteran)
#340203: Nov 19th 2020 at 2:44:04 PM

The obvious counter is "Are you really trying to argue that Trump would count as a rational viewer"

Not that I disagree with the fact that its demonstrably untrue, and people do take them seriously, but rather that its pretty easy to counter the trump argument.

ScubaWolf from South Carolina Since: Feb, 2020
#340204: Nov 19th 2020 at 2:48:43 PM

[up] You then counter that with asking if they're saying that President Donald Trump and the entirety of the Republican party are not rational. Start attacking their audience, and pointing out that if they are an entertainment show, then the majority of their audience is not aware of it and the shows should have a label as they start and after commercial breaks that they're not real news.

Punish Fox News in a way that only THEY would be punished. In other words, force a Catch-22. Either have them put that up admitting they're not real news which is likely to have them lose their followers, or that they are news, making them guilty of libel/slander.

"In a move surprising absolutely no one"
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#340205: Nov 19th 2020 at 2:48:46 PM

"To most people voting in an election, there's only one correct choice. To them, it's not a matter of opinion. One side will have objectively better policies than the other.

So.. what's the point of democracy? You're just opening yourself up for the wrong side to win. "

Easier: for the democracy is a tool for the right opinion to express itself, ergo democracy exist so X opinion hold dominant.

what make a good faith voter over a bad faith is tha the later call the validity of everything the moment their idea isnt push because for them the good voter will see the good thing(them).

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#340206: Nov 19th 2020 at 2:54:12 PM

[up]x2 I'm pretty sure that in that circumstance Fox News would claim they're being unfairly attacked for exercising their right to Free Speech (remember, Lying outside of legal documents and court rooms is Free Speech) and Free Press, and the Supreme Court (especially this one) would say that attacking Fox is unconstitutional.

ScubaWolf from South Carolina Since: Feb, 2020
#340207: Nov 19th 2020 at 2:58:33 PM

[up] Doubtful, since that would mean that no politician could attack "the mainstream media" again like Trump could. They wouldn't want to close something they could abuse in the future.

"In a move surprising absolutely no one"
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#340208: Nov 19th 2020 at 3:07:57 PM

Talk shows aren't required to have a "Not Real News" disclaimer. Why would Hannity be legally required to do things that Colbert doesn't have to?

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#340209: Nov 19th 2020 at 3:12:46 PM

There is something vaguely similar that happened with Alex Jones IIRC. Basically, in a custody case, his ex-wife or her lawyer argued that he was insane, sighting the things he says on his show. Jones's lawyer argued that Jones was simply an actor playing a character and didn't actually believe what he was saying. Despite this, Jones still has sincere followers.

Leviticus 19:34
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#340210: Nov 19th 2020 at 3:32:39 PM

[up]x2 Honestly, a lot of it is about the execution. Colbert is comedy in format, has a studio audience that you don't get on a news show (at least pre-COVID) and has more than just political content. Hannity has none of these defenses. His show is presented as if it's actual news, from the presentation to the format. Hell, most episodes even start with "FOX. NEWS. ALERT.", as if what you're going to see is breaking news delivered free of bias, not a pundit offering his opinion.

Edited by speedyboris on Nov 19th 2020 at 3:34:04 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#340211: Nov 19th 2020 at 3:33:22 PM

Jones notably later denied what his lawyer said because he had to protect his fanbase image.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#340212: Nov 19th 2020 at 3:39:07 PM

Tommy Vietor of Crooked Media wrote a piece, Why Joe Biden Must Sideline Fox, where he argues that the Democrats and the rest of the media need to stop treating Fox as legitimate news media. He points out how the rest of the big news stations actually boycotted a press conference because the Obama Administration wouldn't include Fox News, and compares it harshly to how they didn't show any solidarity when Trump and Fox was attacking them these past four years. Point is that Fox gets away with a lot of what they do because everyone else gives them more leeway than they deserve.

He urges Biden to treat Fox like the propaganda network it is, and to call them out as such again and again until it sticks in people's minds. He doesn't say Democrats should never go on Fox, but there should instead be a focus on appearing on and promoting progressive media outlets such as Crooked Media and the Nation.

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#340213: Nov 19th 2020 at 3:59:43 PM

The thing about all this stuff about Fox is that if the election isn't stolen, there's a very good chance it stops being the sole conservative Propaganda Machine. Trump seems to be burning his bridges with it in fairly dramatic fashion.

“Michigan law does not include a provision for the Legislature to directly select electors or to award electors to anyone other than the person who received the most votes,” Shirkey’s spokeswoman said last week.

So my guess is Trump's gonna say "Hey, pick the electors yourself guys!" and they'll both say "We literally can't, even if we canceled the votes we couldn't give you the electors," and then he'll say "Do it anyways!" and they'll say "No, we don't want to go to jail."

The way they word it that does leave them a way to do it if they throw out the votes, though - just get rid of enough of them so that Trump is "the person who received the most votes."

Now, from everything I've read, these guys have been pretty consistent on ruling that out. They're bad, covid-enabling GOP goons for sure, but at the baseline level of detachment from reality, not the Giuliani level that can rationalize 150,000 votes as fraudulent. And there's a colossal list of other hurdles after that, which honestly look insurmountable to a first glance. But this does seem like the one feasible path for a Trump coup to succeed.

Edited by nrjxll on Nov 19th 2020 at 6:00:38 AM

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#340214: Nov 19th 2020 at 4:03:57 PM

Fox isn't the sole reactionary propaganda network anymore. It seems like Newsmax and OANN are gaining traction, albeit to what degree I'm really not sure.

That all being said I don't think Fox is going anywhere regardless of what Trump says about it. In a fight between Murdoch and Trump, it's not a really a contest.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#340215: Nov 19th 2020 at 4:07:02 PM

Trump's people have repeatedly stated they want to buy one of the competing networks.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
clemont107 Mega Togekiss?! from Land of Missed Opportunities (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Mega Togekiss?!
#340216: Nov 19th 2020 at 4:19:08 PM

[up] I don't think Donnie is any shape to buy an entire network this late into his life. If he does buy a network, it's probably gonna be for Don Jr. or Ivanka, whomever wants the network more.

"Wow, no Mega Togekiss in Legends Z-A. Or any non-Froslass new Sinnoh Mega Evolutions. Round of applause, everybody." - Dawn
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#340217: Nov 19th 2020 at 4:19:45 PM

And the completing networks have said they're not interested. Whatever the talking heads say, the people who pay their checks don't want Trump actually running their networks into the ground.

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#340218: Nov 19th 2020 at 4:20:03 PM

Either way. A fight between Trump and Fox is not one that Fox has any business losing.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#340219: Nov 19th 2020 at 4:20:48 PM

He's a billionaire and [former] President of the United States,he totally can

It may not last though,indeed I think it will be rather short lived in the face of competition

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#340220: Nov 19th 2020 at 4:22:21 PM

@Ultimatum Not necessarily. He's a wealthy person, but the competing networks he's interested in purchasing have already told him they aren't for sale. Every business has its price, but it might very well exceed Trump's means.

Leviticus 19:34
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#340221: Nov 19th 2020 at 4:25:44 PM

I think the assumption that Fox would stomp Trump in an open fight is underestimating Trump's cult of personality. There's no ideological difference between them and Fox, yet at least some of them are already jumping ship, and Fox has no single figurehead to replace Trump as an object of devotion. I'm unconvinced that Murdoch simply outspending Trump would finish off the latter in a way that no one else has achieved yet.

(Then again, I'll admit this may be wishful thinking on my part, as a genuine, long-lasting civil war between Republican extremists would definitely be a boon to Democrats.)

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#340222: Nov 19th 2020 at 4:26:41 PM

He's a billionaire and [former] President of the United States,he totally can

Trump doesn't have nearly as much money as he wants people to think he does. And Deutsche is looking to collect soon.

ScubaWolf from South Carolina Since: Feb, 2020
#340223: Nov 19th 2020 at 4:26:59 PM

Murdoch could simply BUY Trump's debt, beating Trump simply by having the ability to take everything Trump owns to pay off the debt whenever he wants.

Edited by ScubaWolf on Nov 19th 2020 at 7:27:10 AM

"In a move surprising absolutely no one"
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#340224: Nov 19th 2020 at 4:38:09 PM

China and Putin bought Trump's debt and Trump racked up another 500 million almost instantaneously.

Personally, I believe the issue would be solved if Fox offered Trump an hour long of TV every week.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Nov 19th 2020 at 4:39:09 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life

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