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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#340176: Nov 19th 2020 at 12:55:24 PM

I'm honestly in favor of a return of the Fairness Doctrine (TL;DR, requiring broadcasters to air both sides of an issue be presented) simply because MSNBC, CNN, and other mainstream affiliates are already engaging in it - but Fox News is definitely not. Forcing them to actually present information from outside the bubble could help, or at least mitigate some of the worst damage they do already.

Edited by ironballs16 on Nov 19th 2020 at 3:56:01 PM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#340177: Nov 19th 2020 at 1:03:06 PM

The Jacobin is the best pony!

:)

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#340178: Nov 19th 2020 at 1:03:22 PM

Rather than most conservatives being "evil" I think it's more that most conservatives are willing to go along with evil things if they're is some benefit (real or often just perceived) to them and there "group" however they define it.

Note I said "go along with" instead of "actively carry out" because most people probably don't have the motivation to actively work for good or bad things.

Of course, you can reasonably say the distinctions really don't matter with what we're talking about here. If bad stuff is still happening how much does it matter that people voting for it aren't actively malicious.

I would agree with that last part. Splitting hairs over precise levels of heinousness isn't really the point; the point is that the heinousness exists. With regards to the question, "Are Republicans evil?" there is little functional difference between

  1. I want to put Mexicans in concentration camps. I hate Mexicans and want them to make them stop coming here by whatever means necessary.
  2. Shit, you could be putting them in gas chambers for all I care. As long as I don't have to pay taxes, it's no skin off my back.

Both types of Republican exist and you can certainly say, "Well, this guy isn't that guy," but it'd be disingenuous to say that a person isn't evil because of it. Whether a given Republican is greedy and selfish or spitefully malicious is ultimately academic; they're bad people doing bad things to this country either way.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 19th 2020 at 1:04:08 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#340179: Nov 19th 2020 at 1:15:01 PM

Apparently the press conference that Rudy put on was a total gong show. I didn't torture myself watching it, but Chris Krebs described it as such:

That press conference was the most dangerous 1hr 45 minutes of television in American history. And possibly the craziest. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, you’re lucky.

Edited by speedyboris on Nov 19th 2020 at 1:16:24 AM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#340180: Nov 19th 2020 at 1:15:31 PM

At the same time, although the effect of both is basically the same, the distinction does mean that perhaps subtly different tactics may still need to be employed to reduce harm from the two groups.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#340181: Nov 19th 2020 at 1:25:03 PM

Trump is trying to convince the Michigan GOP to overturn the election.

https://apnews.com/article/trump-invites-michigan-gop-white-house-6ab95edd3373ecc9607381175d6f3328

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#340182: Nov 19th 2020 at 1:25:33 PM

What's that Trevor Noah quote, "I don't hate you, I just don't care about you"?

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#340183: Nov 19th 2020 at 1:29:26 PM

[up][up]I am getting really, really worried about this. I have zero faith in state Republicans to stand by their statements about not appointing their own slate of electors in the face of direct pressure from Trump, and if it happens in Michigan - which has Biden's biggest margin of victory out of all of the contested states - that's probably the cue for it to happen everywhere else.

That still doesn't mean Trump steals the election - rival slates of electors are an ambiguous situation - but it makes things a lot closer.

Edited by nrjxll on Nov 19th 2020 at 3:29:45 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#340184: Nov 19th 2020 at 1:32:19 PM

One of my issues with and Pelosi and Schumer over Biden is I get the impression that they, too, are ideologues of the aggressive centrist kind who will pursue their own vision of party unity and their idea of a safe middle above all else, even if it means squashing successful progressive voices in the process. Meanwhile Biden, for all his issues with centrism to a fault and his flexibility leading him to make poor decisions in the past, does not appear to have nearly as much ideological drive to persist as those two do. A win is a win.

Quite right.

Though to be fair, I feel that this applies much more to Schumer than Pelosi. I don't think she's un-idealogical or anything like that but I think she's more pragmatic than he is. I could imagine a more powerful left-wing faction of the Democrats working with her, it's much harder to imagine the same with Schumer.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#340185: Nov 19th 2020 at 1:32:52 PM

[up][up]

I think if they did do that, there may genuinely be an armed insurrection over such grossly manipulative tactics. Ordering a recount is one thing - throwing out the results because you don't like them is another matter entirely, and those legislators know as much. The big question-mark is how much they care, especially in the faces of those that might get an armed insurrection going because they won't resort to such tactics.

Edited by ironballs16 on Nov 19th 2020 at 4:33:39 AM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
ScubaWolf from South Carolina Since: Feb, 2020
#340186: Nov 19th 2020 at 1:33:39 PM

I think it's time for states to start to start pressing charges for election interference on Lindsey Graham and a few other Republicans causing this shitshow. If the Republicans think they'll lose the Senate for this circus, they'll stop immediately. And in the case of Trump...have sealed charges ready for the day after he gets out of office.

Edited by ScubaWolf on Nov 19th 2020 at 4:34:19 AM

"In a move surprising absolutely no one"
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#340187: Nov 19th 2020 at 1:34:12 PM

[up]x6

Michigan law does not include a provision for the Legislature to directly select electors or to award electors to anyone other than the person who received the most votes,” Shirkey’s spokeswoman said last week.

So my guess is Trump's gonna say "Hey, pick the electors yourself guys!" and they'll both say "We literally can't, even if we canceled the votes we couldn't give you the electors," and then he'll say "Do it anyways!" and they'll say "No, we don't want to go to jail."

Edited by DingoWalley1 on Nov 19th 2020 at 4:34:26 AM

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#340188: Nov 19th 2020 at 1:39:04 PM

I don't know if this helps. Because Republicans.

But going off the article...

Both Shirley and Chatfield [the people Trump's meeting with,) have indicated they will not try to overturn Biden’s win.

“Michigan law does not include a provision for the Legislature to directly select electors or to award electors to anyone other than the person who received the most votes,” Shirkey’s spokeswoman said last week.

Ninja'd.[nja]

Edited by kkhohoho on Nov 19th 2020 at 3:40:41 AM

Imca (Veteran)
#340190: Nov 19th 2020 at 2:07:45 PM

I'm honestly in favor of a return of the Fairness Doctrine (TL;DR, requiring broadcasters to air both sides of an issue be presented)

The problem with this should be self evident if you think about it for even a couple moment, you have to give equal merrit to things like climate change denial and white supremecy whenever they come up.... its a fundemnatly broken plan.

A better option is to require that any thing that calls itself news be able to prove a factual basis for whatever it argues if it wants to continue calling itself news.

Perseus Since: Nov, 2009
#340191: Nov 19th 2020 at 2:10:54 PM

Haven't Fox News legally argued that their talk shows are obviously entertainment programs, not news programs, because no rational person would mistake them for fact?

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#340193: Nov 19th 2020 at 2:13:01 PM

My answer to the Fairness Doctrine is something I call the "Bias Doctrine"; have it that literally anything and everything in any form of media that presents current events, in any form, has a warning in print (and verbally when applicable) that says "The following Program, while presenting current events, presents them in a manner that is biased by the creators or announcers viewpoints. Viewer Discretion is advised."

If people know they're being manipulated they are less likely to accept the bias. And this would apply for everything from News Programs to News Papers to Blogs to shows like South Park. And they would have to show (and say) this message every possible moment; on every web page, before and after every commercial break, etc.

Is it a perfect solution? No. However, I believe it is something that would be very effective for the majority of Americans, and it should be Constitutionally sound as its not denying people's rights to Freedom of Speech or Press.

The only thing I don't have is a form of punishment for things that don't pick it up. Can't sue them for that would violate free speech. Maybe Google and the FCC can work on an agreement to force at least Television and the Internet to force this or they're cut from those platforms...

Edited by DingoWalley1 on Nov 19th 2020 at 5:16:12 AM

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#340194: Nov 19th 2020 at 2:13:18 PM

[up][up][up]That was the defense in regards to Fox and Friends when Carlson got sued, I think.

Problem being of course, that their audience does take their talk show at face value, and they know it too.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Nov 19th 2020 at 7:13:40 AM

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#340196: Nov 19th 2020 at 2:24:44 PM

Even putting aside the "news vs. opinion" or "news vs. conspiracy theories or just making crap up" problem, what is the "entertainment" in a host spewing bile about a group of people they disagree with for an hour?

...Oh wait, I just answered my own question. Let's just call these "entertainment" primetime shows what they are: Radicalizing propaganda programs. Or, to overuse 1984 parallels yet again, Two Minutes' Hate.

Edited by speedyboris on Nov 19th 2020 at 2:27:49 AM

ScubaWolf from South Carolina Since: Feb, 2020
#340197: Nov 19th 2020 at 2:27:01 PM

[up][up][up] Such a defense wouldn't fly anymore because it can be pointed out that the President of the United States of America believes what they're saying.

"In a move surprising absolutely no one"
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#340198: Nov 19th 2020 at 2:33:50 PM

Georgia Runoff Explained

Basically, reason runoffs in the south were created after reconstruction to prevent Black candidates from winning through a plurality of votes, instead of a straight majority.

Edited by megaeliz on Nov 19th 2020 at 5:37:55 AM

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#340199: Nov 19th 2020 at 2:35:06 PM

That reminds me of something I call the "Mat Pat Defense". Mat Pat ends his videos with a disclaimer along the lines of "But that's just a theory, a Game Theory!"

You get something similar in crank documentaries like Ancient Aliens where they actually make very few claims directly. They instead ask a question like "Is it possible that aliens built the pyramids?" and then will act as a platform for people who do believe that.

Mind you, part of the problem with a fairness doctrine is that not every situation has two sides, and sometimes, pretending it does can be harmful. For example, if you're discussing if vaccines are good, showing "both sides" can create false equivalency between pro-vaxxers and anti-vaxxers.

Leviticus 19:34
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#340200: Nov 19th 2020 at 2:36:02 PM

[up][up][up] Wouldn't fly with liberal Americans that already knows it's bunk anyway? Yeah, you're right, it wouldn't.

Wouldn't fly in a courtroom? You underestimate the leniency of the American legal system towards wealthy whites.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 19th 2020 at 2:36:37 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

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