TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#340151: Nov 19th 2020 at 12:08:54 PM

I think most conservatives voters aren't nearly as evil or malevolently stupid as many leftists characterize them as being.

They simply only care about themselves, their families, the economy, and find the left's approach to things overbearing.

"Not evil or stupid, just supremely selfish and myopic" is a Distinction Without a Difference.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#340152: Nov 19th 2020 at 12:08:55 PM

I don't think the majority of conservatives are foaming at the mouth MAGA types necessarily (though a disturbing amount of them are), but being self-centered and prioritizing cultural supremacy or their own wallets over a massive health crisis and democratic institutions doesn't exactly make them more sympathetic.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Nov 19th 2020 at 5:11:13 PM

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#340153: Nov 19th 2020 at 12:10:53 PM

RE: Conservative support for Israel

Yeah, this part is the far bigger reason for a lot of Conservative support for Israel - it's called Christian Zionism, which still fits in with anti-Semitism because you're not wanting Israel to exist because it benefits Jews - you want it because that'll fulfill the prophecy, Jesus will descend from Heaven, and you'll be Saved while everyone else (including those Jews) suffer eternally.

Edited by ironballs16 on Nov 19th 2020 at 3:11:14 PM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Resileafs I actually wanted to be Resileaf Since: Jan, 2019
I actually wanted to be Resileaf
#340154: Nov 19th 2020 at 12:11:19 PM

[up][up]Especially when their wallets are being hurt by the current administration's refusal to address a global pandemic.

Edited by Resileafs on Nov 19th 2020 at 3:11:30 PM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#340155: Nov 19th 2020 at 12:12:11 PM

I think one of the things that both progressives and centrists seem to miss out on is the fact that policy doesn't matter nearly as much as branding.

Basically, centrists don't need to be afraid of socialist policies, what they need to be concerned with is the appearance of socialism. Biden is about the last person you could accuse of being a socialist, but the label stuck because the democrats spent little time and effort to counter that narrative in Florida. The democrats don't need to go right or stay in the center, they just need to make it seem like they are, in the areas of the country where "socialism" is still an effective bogieman.

It's why I think a lot of ideologues who go "fuck optics, and fuck compromise, we should just do what we think is right" have a bad case of Skewed Priorities. You can have both, if you're smart, and doing the former doesn't have to come at the expense of the latter or be a betrayal of your values unless you're that stuck in the ideologue hole.

One of my issues with and Pelosi and Schumer over Biden is I get the impression that they, too, are ideologues of the aggressive centrist kind who will pursue their own vision of party unity and their idea of a safe middle above all else, even if it means squashing successful progressive voices in the process. Meanwhile Biden, for all his issues with centrism to a fault and his flexibility leading him to make poor decisions in the past, does not appear to have nearly as much ideological drive to persist as those two do. A win is a win.

Edited by AlleyOop on Nov 19th 2020 at 3:13:12 PM

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#340156: Nov 19th 2020 at 12:13:22 PM

Well, the thing 'bout calling Conservatives evil is that it's no way to get things done. It creates confrontation, not coexistence. And starting a conflict with no way of winning it is seldom well advised.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#340157: Nov 19th 2020 at 12:14:49 PM

[up]Who's "starting" anything?

My musician page
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#340158: Nov 19th 2020 at 12:16:19 PM

Arguments about who shot first stop being relevant around the seventh cycle of revenge.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#340159: Nov 19th 2020 at 12:17:32 PM

[up]...That was kind of my point.

My musician page
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#340160: Nov 19th 2020 at 12:18:11 PM

[up][up][up]Kinda, is a short of sour grapes and political othering were we see voters a sort of a mass unlike our side that is make a well informated voter that just sort of happen vote for our side, I call the political version of incel like behavor "that guy is a jock and she is blind to it".

The thing is, the left cant match the level of dedication the right have because the right is constantly demanding loyalty and engaging of violence in exchange of idealogical reward like "owning the libs"(reward that the republican have set itself), the problem with that is that it slow their growing to a crawl, trump made gains with latino men but beyond that he pretty much never move from is people.

Eventually the dems will have to disrup the republicans habilities to radicalize other people, because demanding that level of compromise in future to a not certein end is waaaaay to much, is kinda like saying "let band and fight the nazi, forever".

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#340161: Nov 19th 2020 at 12:18:41 PM

[up][up][up] Of course, the response to that is that some would say there can't be co-existance between people if one group's beliefs inherently causes them to support a regime that's hostile towards the existence of the other.

Edited by GNinja on Nov 19th 2020 at 8:19:06 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#340162: Nov 19th 2020 at 12:20:46 PM

I agree that there needs to be a focus on actionable steps to eventually have coexistence, but a positive coexistence isn't really going to happen in the short term with the GOP openly eroding democratic norms and their base buying into baseless conspiracy theories.

GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#340163: Nov 19th 2020 at 12:23:11 PM

I guess my question is, what does the left want to do with the people who support the right?

If half the country is considered not meaningfully distinct from evil because they support the republicans, then what do you do with them? Do people think their minds can be changed en masse? Do they see them as a swarm that must be battled until the end o time?

Kaze ni Nare!
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#340164: Nov 19th 2020 at 12:26:09 PM

[up]I think one necessary step is cutting off their disinformation loop. Maybe then, some of them could be reached. Key words being "maybe" and "some."

My musician page
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#340165: Nov 19th 2020 at 12:26:13 PM

Rather than most conservatives being "evil" I think it's more that most conservatives are willing to go along with evil things if they're is some benefit (real or often just perceived) to them and there "group" however they define it.

Note I said "go along with" instead of "actively carry out" because most people probably don't have the motivation to actively work for good or bad things.

Of course, you can reasonably say the distinctions really don't matter with what we're talking about here. If bad stuff is still happening how much does it matter that people voting for it aren't actively malicious.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#340166: Nov 19th 2020 at 12:29:21 PM

IMO, the solution long-term is to work towards persuading those can be persuaded, and those who cannot be and are extremists who support authoritarianism, xenophobia, etc don't deserve to have their opinions validated in any way and do need to be fought against. The republican party is only going to change long-term when/if extremist candidates can no longer gain office.

Resileafs I actually wanted to be Resileaf Since: Jan, 2019
I actually wanted to be Resileaf
#340167: Nov 19th 2020 at 12:34:51 PM

The Republican propaganda machine is also extremely efficient, much more than the normal news Democrats use. Because of this attempt on playing fair, the Democrats don't have entire networks dedicated on demonizing everything the Republicans do, they don't have anything like the way far right activists invent crimes on their side or erase the good things Democrats have done, all to successfully discredit them in the eyes of their supporters or to bring doubt to undecided voters.

I bring this up often, but in a Discord server I'm in, there's someone who constantly links articles from far right sources that 'prove' election fraud. Those articles come from dozens of different websites. If any attempt is made to discredit those articles, that person will claim that your source that discredits them is biased and liberal propaganda, whatever that source is.

GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#340168: Nov 19th 2020 at 12:37:06 PM

I guess this also leads into something I've always been confused about with elections in general.

To most people voting in an election, there's only one correct choice. To them, it's not a matter of opinion. One side will have objectively better policies than the other.

So.. what's the point of democracy? You're just opening yourself up for the wrong side to win.

I dunno where I'm going with this. It's just something that's always stuck in my head.

Edited by GNinja on Nov 19th 2020 at 8:37:39 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
clemont107 Mega Togekiss?! from Land of Missed Opportunities (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Mega Togekiss?!
#340169: Nov 19th 2020 at 12:38:42 PM

[up][up] There needs to be more "anti-Breitbart" news websites that use the alt-right's own tactics against them. This would allow the Left to gain a better hold of the internet than they do currently.

"Wow, no Mega Togekiss in Legends Z-A. Or any non-Froslass new Sinnoh Mega Evolutions. Round of applause, everybody." - Dawn
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#340170: Nov 19th 2020 at 12:39:50 PM

[up][up]

I know the feeling - I know one person who gets the print version of The Epoch Times (a newspaper established by Falun Gong's founder after fleeing China), and despite my telling him that the paper is likely to side with anyone who criticizes China because of this, I've the feeling he didn't listen.

Edited by ironballs16 on Nov 19th 2020 at 3:53:22 PM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#340171: Nov 19th 2020 at 12:40:33 PM

There's also people who consider White Jews to exist who think they aren't WASPS but better than Muslims and that Israel is some sort of white culture bastion against the heathen hordes.

(*cough* Bill Maher)

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#340172: Nov 19th 2020 at 12:41:17 PM

[up][up][up][up]Theoretically, the choice should be between multiple valid options. That said, without some form of democracy, when (not if) some corruption takes hold, there won't be any way to remove it without more power than the people who need it removed have.

[up][up]That reminds me, a promotional copy got sent to my house. I hope it never found its way to my dad. I considered shredding it on sight, but I figured it wouldn't accomplish anything anyway.

Edited by ShinyCottonCandy on Nov 19th 2020 at 3:44:27 PM

My musician page
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#340173: Nov 19th 2020 at 12:44:14 PM

[up][up][up][up] Considering Breitbart is all about deliberately misleading its audiences, we really don't want to respond by having the left promote genuine fake news of its own. That's going into Dirtbag Left territory.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#340174: Nov 19th 2020 at 12:52:19 PM

Yeah, I'm not really comfortable with the idea of "left propaganda network" because what fox, breitbart, and other outlets like them do is inherently negative regardless of political lean. They play to their audience's hatred and fear and essentially promote an alternate universe divorced from empirical reality or critical thinking. That's one of the major reasons the US is in this mess in the first place.

Counter disinformation, but do it the right way, with the truth.

clemont107 Mega Togekiss?! from Land of Missed Opportunities (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Mega Togekiss?!
#340175: Nov 19th 2020 at 12:52:44 PM

[up][up]What I meant was that left-leaning news websites should try to present accurate information, but pull no punches in mocking and criticizing the alt-right. Breitbart and Infowars are safe havens for the alt-right, so creating havens for left-wing users would help counter that.

"Wow, no Mega Togekiss in Legends Z-A. Or any non-Froslass new Sinnoh Mega Evolutions. Round of applause, everybody." - Dawn

Total posts: 417,856
Top