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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
I don't think the majority of conservatives are foaming at the mouth MAGA types necessarily (though a disturbing amount of them are), but being self-centered and prioritizing cultural supremacy or their own wallets over a massive health crisis and democratic institutions doesn't exactly make them more sympathetic.
Edited by Draghinazzo on Nov 19th 2020 at 5:11:13 PM
RE: Conservative support for Israel
Yeah, this part is the far bigger reason for a lot of Conservative support for Israel - it's called Christian Zionism
, which still fits in with anti-Semitism because you're not wanting Israel to exist because it benefits Jews - you want it because that'll fulfill the prophecy, Jesus will descend from Heaven, and you'll be Saved while everyone else (including those Jews) suffer eternally.
Edited by ironballs16 on Nov 19th 2020 at 3:11:14 PM
"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"Basically, centrists don't need to be afraid of socialist policies, what they need to be concerned with is the appearance of socialism. Biden is about the last person you could accuse of being a socialist, but the label stuck because the democrats spent little time and effort to counter that narrative in Florida. The democrats don't need to go right or stay in the center, they just need to make it seem like they are, in the areas of the country where "socialism" is still an effective bogieman.
It's why I think a lot of ideologues who go "fuck optics, and fuck compromise, we should just do what we think is right" have a bad case of Skewed Priorities. You can have both, if you're smart, and doing the former doesn't have to come at the expense of the latter or be a betrayal of your values unless you're that stuck in the ideologue hole.
One of my issues with and Pelosi and Schumer over Biden is I get the impression that they, too, are ideologues of the aggressive centrist kind who will pursue their own vision of party unity and their idea of a safe middle above all else, even if it means squashing successful progressive voices in the process. Meanwhile Biden, for all his issues with centrism to a fault and his flexibility leading him to make poor decisions in the past, does not appear to have nearly as much ideological drive to persist as those two do. A win is a win.
Edited by AlleyOop on Nov 19th 2020 at 3:13:12 PM
Well, the thing 'bout calling Conservatives evil is that it's no way to get things done. It creates confrontation, not coexistence. And starting a conflict with no way of winning it is seldom well advised.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman![]()
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Kinda, is a short of sour grapes and political othering were we see voters a sort of a mass unlike our side that is make a well informated voter that just sort of happen vote for our side, I call the political version of incel like behavor "that guy is a jock and she is blind to it".
The thing is, the left cant match the level of dedication the right have because the right is constantly demanding loyalty and engaging of violence in exchange of idealogical reward like "owning the libs"(reward that the republican have set itself), the problem with that is that it slow their growing to a crawl, trump made gains with latino men but beyond that he pretty much never move from is people.
Eventually the dems will have to disrup the republicans habilities to radicalize other people, because demanding that level of compromise in future to a not certein end is waaaaay to much, is kinda like saying "let band and fight the nazi, forever".
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"I guess my question is, what does the left want to do with the people who support the right?
If half the country is considered not meaningfully distinct from evil because they support the republicans, then what do you do with them? Do people think their minds can be changed en masse? Do they see them as a swarm that must be battled until the end o time?
Kaze ni Nare!
I think one necessary step is cutting off their disinformation loop. Maybe then, some of them could be reached. Key words being "maybe" and "some."
Rather than most conservatives being "evil" I think it's more that most conservatives are willing to go along with evil things if they're is some benefit (real or often just perceived) to them and there "group" however they define it.
Note I said "go along with" instead of "actively carry out" because most people probably don't have the motivation to actively work for good or bad things.
Of course, you can reasonably say the distinctions really don't matter with what we're talking about here. If bad stuff is still happening how much does it matter that people voting for it aren't actively malicious.
IMO, the solution long-term is to work towards persuading those can be persuaded, and those who cannot be and are extremists who support authoritarianism, xenophobia, etc don't deserve to have their opinions validated in any way and do need to be fought against. The republican party is only going to change long-term when/if extremist candidates can no longer gain office.
The Republican propaganda machine is also extremely efficient, much more than the normal news Democrats use. Because of this attempt on playing fair, the Democrats don't have entire networks dedicated on demonizing everything the Republicans do, they don't have anything like the way far right activists invent crimes on their side or erase the good things Democrats have done, all to successfully discredit them in the eyes of their supporters or to bring doubt to undecided voters.
I bring this up often, but in a Discord server I'm in, there's someone who constantly links articles from far right sources that 'prove' election fraud. Those articles come from dozens of different websites. If any attempt is made to discredit those articles, that person will claim that your source that discredits them is biased and liberal propaganda, whatever that source is.
I guess this also leads into something I've always been confused about with elections in general.
To most people voting in an election, there's only one correct choice. To them, it's not a matter of opinion. One side will have objectively better policies than the other.
So.. what's the point of democracy? You're just opening yourself up for the wrong side to win.
I dunno where I'm going with this. It's just something that's always stuck in my head.
Edited by GNinja on Nov 19th 2020 at 8:37:39 PM
Kaze ni Nare!![]()
There needs to be more "anti-Breitbart" news websites that use the alt-right's own tactics against them. This would allow the Left to gain a better hold of the internet than they do currently.
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I know the feeling - I know one person who gets the print version of The Epoch Times (a newspaper established by Falun Gong's founder after fleeing China
), and despite my telling him that the paper is likely to side with anyone who criticizes China because of this, I've the feeling he didn't listen.
Edited by ironballs16 on Nov 19th 2020 at 3:53:22 PM
"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"![]()
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Theoretically, the choice should be between multiple valid options. That said, without some form of democracy, when (not if) some corruption takes hold, there won't be any way to remove it without more power than the people who need it removed have.
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That reminds me, a promotional copy got sent to my house. I hope it never found its way to my dad. I considered shredding it on sight, but I figured it wouldn't accomplish anything anyway.
Edited by ShinyCottonCandy on Nov 19th 2020 at 3:44:27 PM
My musician pageYeah, I'm not really comfortable with the idea of "left propaganda network" because what fox, breitbart, and other outlets like them do is inherently negative regardless of political lean. They play to their audience's hatred and fear and essentially promote an alternate universe divorced from empirical reality or critical thinking. That's one of the major reasons the US is in this mess in the first place.
Counter disinformation, but do it the right way, with the truth.
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What I meant was that left-leaning news websites should try to present accurate information, but pull no punches in mocking and criticizing the alt-right. Breitbart and Infowars are safe havens for the alt-right, so creating havens for left-wing users would help counter that.

They simply only care about themselves, their families, the economy, and find the left's approach to things overbearing.
"Not evil or stupid, just supremely selfish and myopic" is a Distinction Without a Difference.
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