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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#339776: Nov 17th 2020 at 11:02:38 AM

It's not a false equivalence. We need justice to be done, and that means following proper investigative and prosecutorial process, not knee-jerk arresting people. If Biden ordered the black-bagging of every ICE employee on Day 1 of his term, he would rightly be accused of being a dictator.

Except we have all the evidence necessary and records to arrest them all because they've documented and recorded crimes against humanity. It's also a crime that everyone who DOES NOT arrest them for should be arrested for. If you don't stop a crime like this, you're abetting it.

I would say overly idealistic, not insipid and delusional. Also, we just had four years of a president going "HALF THE COUNTRY IS EVIL" and that only made things worse. It might appear pointless to preach the opposite but you have a binary choice here and one of them is inherently dangerous and radicalising.

Actually, there's a good question whether normalizing their behavior is actually worse in the long run. When you have the President saying the other side is monsters, evil, rapists, and pedophiles—not reacting like they're insane, criminals, and evil may just embolden them.

Maybe the way to save America is to say, "No, you are the bad guy in this."

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Nov 17th 2020 at 11:04:11 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#339777: Nov 17th 2020 at 11:06:55 AM

You do need some level of national unity, though, or else the country will rip itself apart eventually. It has happened to other countries before, and it can be a very messy process.

What is the alternative to maintaining unity? You can't just secede from Republicans.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#339778: Nov 17th 2020 at 11:08:11 AM

Please don't use that bloody notification thing, I hate it seeming like someone's sent me a PM when, no, it's just a post I'm going to get around to seeing anyway...

Fair enough, I'll make sure to keep that in mind.

I would say overly idealistic, not insipid and delusional. Also, we just had four years of a president going "HALF THE COUNTRY IS EVIL" and that only made things worse. It might appear pointless to preach the opposite but you have a binary choice here and one of them is inherently dangerous and radicalising.

I don't think that wasting energies on a quixotic attempt at bipartisanship is particularly productive. Yes, acknowledging that Republicans are terrible is radicalizing. But radicalism is what we need, moderation has failed us. Moderates want to tinker with the system while it's burning down.

Biden is less moderate then his rhetoric would suggest, thank god, but the kind of attitude his rhetoric encourages is deeply harmful.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#339779: Nov 17th 2020 at 11:08:49 AM

[up][up]I won’t pretend to know of an alternative, but right now, unity is impossible. Period.

My musician page
ScubaWolf from South Carolina Since: Feb, 2020
#339780: Nov 17th 2020 at 11:09:10 AM

[up][up][up] Arrest some of the leaders for crimes they have committed that we have actual evidence on. If we don't go for Trump and leave him for New York, then go after Lindsey Graham, Mitch Mc Connell, Chuck Grassley, Ted Cruz, etc. Take down the leaders for actual crimes to bring the rest of them in line.

Edited by ScubaWolf on Nov 17th 2020 at 2:09:24 PM

"In a move surprising absolutely no one"
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#339781: Nov 17th 2020 at 11:10:02 AM

You do need some level of national unity, though, or else the country will rip itself apart eventually.

I'm not arguing that Biden should go out of his way to get involved in investigating republicans, but I'd like to note this is already happening regardless. An increasing amount of republicans are basically living in an alternate reality completely incompatible with empirical reality and can't really be reasoned with. They're not going to stop with the cruelty, xenophobia, and division now that they've seen it works.

Point being, there's no short term solution to this problem anyway.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#339782: Nov 17th 2020 at 11:14:57 AM

I think our national situation can be summarized as thus:

"When you let the man with the leopards run wild, don't be surprised when people get bitten."

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#339783: Nov 17th 2020 at 11:15:24 AM

I'm tired of all this bullshit talk about "Unity". Where was this rhetoric when Trump was talking about locking up his political opponents , or when children were being separated from their parents? It just feels like a false equivalence, like we need to just Let Go all the horrible things Trump has done for the sake of making peace with our racist next door neighbors. It's a bull-crap double standard, and AOC is right that it's losing the democratic party votes. I sincerely hope Biden isn't foolish enough to actually pardon Trump

[up]there's an entire subreddit for that https://www.reddit.com/r/LeopardsAteMyFace/

Edited by Xopher001 on Nov 17th 2020 at 9:16:51 PM

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#339784: Nov 17th 2020 at 11:15:59 AM

Biden isn't going to pardon Trump. He doesn't gain anything by doing that.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#339785: Nov 17th 2020 at 11:16:11 AM

The problem with Biden's desire for national unity is not that national unity is not a good thing, it's that it cannot be meaningfully achieved. Republicans have gone off the deep end, desperately pretending they haven't (though thankfully Biden has somewhat moved away from this) is worse than doing nothing.

It's about as quixotic as me desperately working to become a billionaire, it's not going to happen and at best just breeds disappointment.

That said, Biden is not nearly so far gone as to pardon Trump. That's not happening.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Nov 17th 2020 at 11:16:50 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#339786: Nov 17th 2020 at 11:21:33 AM

To be a bit more summarized:

Joe Biden was attacked through his son and attempts to frame him for crimes by Donald J. Trump.

The Republicans said nothing.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#339787: Nov 17th 2020 at 11:24:58 AM

Bold of people to assume that I would risk my dignity unifying with people who don't believe in the plague as they're currently dying from it.

Resileafs I actually wanted to be Resileaf Since: Jan, 2019
I actually wanted to be Resileaf
#339788: Nov 17th 2020 at 11:26:48 AM

Personally I like the thought of Biden washing his hands completely of T**** once he's in office. For someone who thrives to be in the spotlight, who could have made himself a martyr by presenting himself as a victim of dictator Biden, to just be left completely ignored would be an insult of the highest order on T****. Then when the DOJ or New York gets on his case for tax fraud, Biden will truthfully be able to say "I've had nothing to do with this and I don't care about this" and go back to doing presidential things.

Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#339789: Nov 17th 2020 at 11:27:30 AM

That's a really strange analogy.[up][up]

Edited by Xopher001 on Nov 17th 2020 at 9:27:44 PM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#339790: Nov 17th 2020 at 11:27:44 AM

Trump is one thing. He can sit his fat orange ass on his golf course and rot for all I care. But the hundreds or thousands of people he empowered to commit crimes against humanity need some kind of repercussions.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#339791: Nov 17th 2020 at 11:30:39 AM

Another thing. People say the country is "divided". But when you take into account the total population of the US (300+ million), the number of people that voted for Trump in this election was less than 20%. Not insignificant, sure, but a far cry from a split down the middle

Edited by Xopher001 on Nov 17th 2020 at 9:30:51 PM

Perseus Since: Nov, 2009
#339792: Nov 17th 2020 at 11:31:33 AM

"Only a fifth of the population voted for a fascist" is not actually a comforting statement.

Resileafs I actually wanted to be Resileaf Since: Jan, 2019
I actually wanted to be Resileaf
#339793: Nov 17th 2020 at 11:34:43 AM

"A bit more than 20% americans voted against fascism" is also not very comforting, when you get down to it.

I expected more than ~50% participation rate for this election, too.

Edited by Resileafs on Nov 17th 2020 at 2:36:16 PM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#339795: Nov 17th 2020 at 11:36:12 AM

Yeah. Most americans are apathetic.

Edited by Forenperser on Nov 17th 2020 at 8:36:26 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
ScubaWolf from South Carolina Since: Feb, 2020
#339796: Nov 17th 2020 at 11:36:19 AM

[up]x4 It means however we can force them all back into their holes with them fearing repercussions for their hate spewing selves and make them stay there for a while, hopefully for the rest of their miserable lives.

Edited by ScubaWolf on Nov 17th 2020 at 2:36:26 PM

"In a move surprising absolutely no one"
Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#339797: Nov 17th 2020 at 11:36:41 AM

It isn't , but it's more comforting than "50% of the country voted for an insane fascist". Also less of an excuse to appease these people like SOME Democrats feel obliged to

Edited by Xopher001 on Nov 17th 2020 at 9:37:37 PM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#339798: Nov 17th 2020 at 11:37:43 AM

Regardless, how do you plan to recruit the non-voters to your cause of sending Republicans back to their holes? They've already shown they won't turn out even to vote against a dictator. Are we doing the thing again where we pretend there's some magic outrage button we can push that will get the Silent Majority to rise up on our side? I'm afraid that's been proven false many times before.

Now, voter suppression is a different matter, but we need definitive control of Congress and the White House to fix that... possibly even the Supreme Court. That means winning in those states where Republicans can suppress votes. It's a Catch-22.

Edited by Fighteer on Nov 17th 2020 at 2:38:44 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#339799: Nov 17th 2020 at 11:39:19 AM

Maybe actually implementing some progressive policies will help. Idk, there's no point in trying to win over these people if they are that far gone.

You are right tho, this won't be easy until there is actual substantive electoral reform

Edited by Xopher001 on Nov 17th 2020 at 9:40:34 PM

ScubaWolf from South Carolina Since: Feb, 2020
#339800: Nov 17th 2020 at 11:39:39 AM

[up][up] If they don't vote or want to, why should we care about what they think?

Edited by ScubaWolf on Nov 17th 2020 at 2:39:48 PM

"In a move surprising absolutely no one"

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