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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Chapter and verse of §2, Sec.2 Clause 1 US Constitution:
Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of impeachment.
That excludes both state level offences such as these New York is pursuing and impeachment itself (but that's not relevant as he was acquitted)
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanI don’t see Biden going back on his promise to not pardon Trump, he might be privately hoping that Trump resigns and has Pence pardon him, but actually pardoning Trump would hurt him and the party monumentally.
The reaction on the left wouldn't be quiet, you’d likely see the Democrats fracture over it, some within the party might even try and impeach Biden for it (and Republicans might be willing to help just to stir the pot), a strong third-party run in 2024 would be inevitable (and give Republicans the White House) and Biden would have proved for a generation that both sides really are the same.
If Biden actually wants to avoid Trump being prosecuted he’ll pick an AG who won’t do it, maybe justify the choice by pointing out that they need to get confirmed, but a pardon in defiance of his own party’s impeachment? The reaction within the party would be nuclear.
It’s deliberate. War crimes are committed against other nations’ people, that means they both often aren’t covered by US domestic law and matter a lot less to the public.
Edited by Silasw on Nov 17th 2020 at 6:02:24 PM
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranThe President can only pardon Federal crimes, so if the city or state of New York tries to charge him with something, it's out of The President's hands.
Leviticus 19:34I have no doubt there are ways that Biden could encourage an investigation if he wanted, sadly he's Biden and thus has a delusional and insipid desire for national unity. No, if Trump is going to be charged for his many crimes then it will have to be done at the state level.
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Nov 17th 2020 at 10:03:57 AM
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangMeanwhile, autistic people are joining politics.
On both sides of the political spectrum.
By contrast, Benham, a Democrat, was openly autistic when she announced her run for office last year, and she made it a central part of her persona as a candidate.
As something that potentially affects me personally, I'm a little excited for this. I hope it will eventually lead to better understanding, acceptance, possibly policies that help us.
Edited by BonsaiForest on Nov 17th 2020 at 1:15:24 PM
I'm sure that like every other representation the Republicans have, they will use it to show that "anyone can do it", pay lip service to the idea in people's faces, and use it to implement regressive policies wherever possible.
It's neither good nor bad at the moment.
You can generally count on Republicans to be horrible given any opportunity.
The fact that they cheat while Democrats play fair is unfortunate, but the only way we can have a country that operates on the rule of law is if we maintain the rule of law. That means not throwing people in jail for political reasons, but rather going through the proper process of investigation and prosecution.
This also means that people who commit crimes under a political agenda should indeed be prosecuted. If Biden's Justice Department gives all these people a pass, it'll be just as bad a problem as if Biden himself orders all his enemies thrown in jail.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"That's a false equivalence, though.
The problem is that the Republicans are constantly breaking the law, obstructing justice, and underming democracy. The only way to maintain those institutions is to arrest and prosecute them. It's a political act only so much as one side of the political divide is made of criminals.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.![]()
It's not a false equivalence. We need justice to be done, and that means following proper investigative and prosecutorial process, not knee-jerk arresting people. If Biden ordered the black-bagging of every ICE employee on Day 1 of his term, he would rightly be accused of being a dictator.
Edited by Fighteer on Nov 17th 2020 at 1:37:27 PM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Oh no, Biden isn't going to give Trump a pardon. That'd be silly.
Biden intends to be entirely hands-off on the topic of pursuing or not pursuing criminal charges against Trump. Which is how the Justice Department is supposed to work. It's not meant to be a cudgel for POTUS to wield against political rivals. "Because POTUS said so" is not a good basis for criminal investigations.
If the federal justice department decides to pursue Trump, Biden will let them. But he's not going to order them to do it. Because ordering them to arrest his political rivals is corrupt.
But don't hold your breath about them doing it.
I don't think SCOTUS cares about public outcry. They aren't going to rule in Trump's favor out of some sense of loyalty to Trump personally, but they also aren't going to rule against him out of some sense of loyalty to the American public either.
SCOTUS Justices are immune to consequences for their rulings. They will never face re-election, never face re-appointment, and their terms are forever. They do not care what anybody, anywhere, thinks of their rulings because nobody else's opinion will ever affect their jobs again. This is supposed to put them above partisanship and it sort of works, but you can't actually prevent people from having ideological biases.
And so every Supreme Court Justice has their own personal interpretation of the law. Conservative justices interpret the text on paper in conservative ways while liberal justices interpret the text on paper in liberal ways. Conservative and liberal justices aren't beholden to party politics - or the will of the American people, for that matter - but wherever there is an ounce of wiggle room, you can usually expect them to lean in that one way or the other.
Their job is to look at the text on paper and say, "This is what that actually means," and their ideological biases influence their reading.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 17th 2020 at 10:42:15 AM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
I think though that some of the conservative justices may worry about a Democrat president being able to self-pardon, so they would not want to inadvertently set a precedent leading to that kind of scenario.
Or... his goals and desires are correct but his timing is wrong?
~RainehDaze If a goal is in the "wrong time" then by definition it is not correct.
Preaching national unity while one side will never ever agree to it, and is actively attacking you, is at best disingenuous at worst actively suicidal. Which really says it all about his "national unity" malarkey, that it's only defensible if we assume that he's lying.
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangPlease don't use that bloody notification thing, I hate it seeming like someone's sent me a PM when, no, it's just a post I'm going to get around to seeing anyway...
I would say overly idealistic, not insipid and delusional. Also, we just had four years of a president going "HALF THE COUNTRY IS EVIL" and that only made things worse. It might appear pointless to preach the opposite but you have a binary choice here and one of them is inherently dangerous and radicalising.
Also there is nothing inherently wrong with what Biden said.
He's perfectly right to say that any investigations will lead to more division and strife, because they will. He's perfectly right to say we need unity over division, because we do.
I read it as less "Lets brush everything Trump did under the rug" and more "You know it SUCKS that we are going to have to investigate a former POTUS for crimes committed while in office but it needs to be done...and its going to be a shit show, but still needs to happen."

Uh.
This is why we've been looking to New York, folks, right? They're pretty clearly eager, they're probably not going to get called out for doing it for political reasons and aren't going to be appointed by Biden so it won't look like he's appointing them to do this, and a President can't pardon anyone for state-level crimes.