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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#339626: Nov 16th 2020 at 8:06:47 PM

300K missing ballots.

Trump cheated on a MASSIVE level but it wasn't ENOUGH.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#339627: Nov 16th 2020 at 8:10:20 PM

[up][up]That was also the year his family was hit by a truck while they were picking up a Christmas tree. His wife and infant daughter were killed, and his two sons were seriously injured.

He hadn't even been sworn in yet.

Biden nearly quit politics right then and there without casting a single vote in the Senate.

Edited by M84 on Nov 17th 2020 at 12:12:04 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#339628: Nov 16th 2020 at 8:13:00 PM

[up][up] The 300K thing might have been exaggerated, but it's hard to know for sure. Voter suppression tactics surely counted for way more than that, but again it's hard to know for sure. If the GOP weren't so awful, there might be a meaningful choice between them and the Democrats. As is, you can't vote GOP without supporting evil.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#339629: Nov 16th 2020 at 8:17:14 PM

Perdue backs out of debate after being called a “crook," Ossoff will face off against empty podium Ahead of their runoff election in Georgia, Democratic candidate Jon Ossoff calls Sen. David Perdue "a coward, too"

https://www.salon.com/2020/11/16/perdue-backs-out-of-debate-after-being-called-a-crook-ossoff-will-face-off-against-empty-podium/

    Not Sure How Good A Source Salon Is 
An Excerpt:
Democratic Senate candidate Jon Ossoff called Sen. David Perdue, R-Ga., a "coward" on Sunday for refusing to participate in any debates ahead of their January runoff election in Georgia.

Perdue will be "represented by an empty podium" at the Atlanta Press Club's Dec. 6 debate, according to Georgia Public Broadcasting. The debate organizer said the move was not its "preference," but Perdue had "decided not to participate."

Sen. Kelly Loeffler, R-Ga., is scheduled to debate her Democratic challenger Raphael Warnock in Georgia's other runoff race on Dec. 6, the Atlanta Press Club said. The two runoffs will determine which party controls the U.S. Senate for the next two years. Democrats will retain control of the House of Representatives as they reclaim control of the White House under President-elect Joe Biden.

Perdue likewise withdrew from his previously scheduled final debate with Ossoff before Election Day after a clip of the Democrat calling the incumbent a "crook" went viral.

"It's not just that you're a crook, senator. It's that you're attacking the health of the people that you represent. You did say COVID-19 was no deadlier than the flu. You did say there would be no significant uptick in cases. All the while, you were looking after your own assets and your own portfolio," Ossoff said as he brought up the senator's stock trades.

As the Associated Press reported, "Perdue was among a group of senators whose stock trades came under scrutiny. Perdue denied any wrongdoing, saying the trades were handled by outside advisers and that he was cleared by a Senate Ethics Committee investigation."

After Perdue declined to participate in the Dec. 6 debate, Ossoff said, "Perdue isn't just a crook — he's a coward too."

"David 'empty podium' Perdue," Ossoff also tweeted, adding that the Republican "can't defend his lies about COVID-19, self-dealing stock trades, his bigotry, or his votes to take away Georgians' health care."

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#339630: Nov 16th 2020 at 8:20:23 PM

Edit: To say that they dislike Obama and consider his 8 years as president disappointing is an understatement. You'd think it was Bush Parts 3 and 4 namely with regards to things involving the housing crash, the lack of prosecution of bankers, and some stuff involving members of his cabinet coming from banking firms and/or corporations or some such thing. I'm not familiar enough with a LOT of this stuff hence asking here since by the large, you guys are SIGNIFICANTLY more reasonable

Obama is not someone who is beyond reproach and there's plenty to question regarding his activities in office, particularly with the fact that he felt like the best way to proceed in the War on Terror was to do it more efficiently and effectively, his continued maintenance of the vastly expanded Presidential powers as well as Patriot Act, and his mass bail out of corporations with very questionable limitations on them in exchange for it as well as less than tremendous effort for the regular Americans who suffered during the 2008 financial crisis.

Or as I said regarding Hillary vs. Trump, "I don't like Hillary or her economic plans but it's not like it's a choice between that and the Stupid Antichrist." You go with the army you have and Obama was our general.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Nov 16th 2020 at 8:20:46 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#339631: Nov 16th 2020 at 8:36:26 PM

One thing that would help is if we stopped using the phrase "lesser evil" to describe our own fucking candidate. There are a lot of ways to say that our guy is better than the other guy, and people on the left tend to default to literally the worst possible one ever.

You want to get people to turn out and vote? Don't start your sales pitch by going, "So, my candidate sucks and is bad, BUUUUUUT...." The idea of Democrats being a lesser evil only serves to validate the bothsiders.

Positivity sells hope and hope gets people to the ballots.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 16th 2020 at 8:38:58 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#339632: Nov 16th 2020 at 8:42:00 PM

Yes and I will happily be positive when I have something positive about.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#339633: Nov 16th 2020 at 8:53:14 PM

Is it really too much to ask that we not describe our own candidates as evil? The "lesser" qualifier doesn't actually help that much.

Disgusted, but not surprised
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#339634: Nov 16th 2020 at 8:54:18 PM

It depends on the candidate.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#339635: Nov 16th 2020 at 8:56:31 PM

The problem is that it still creates equivalence.

"Lesser Evil" would work when comparing, say, Doctor Doom (sociopath Evil Overlord with delusions of godhood) to the Red Skull (who is the literal worst in Marvel). Or for comparing the Imperium of Man (genocidal theocratic regime) vs. Chaos (literally everything wrong with people).

It is not an appropriate choice of words for comparing Biden to Trump.

Edited by M84 on Nov 17th 2020 at 12:57:55 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#339636: Nov 16th 2020 at 9:08:09 PM

With "Lesser Evil" in politics, my theory is that it's actually much easier to argue that something or someone is evil in some manner than argue that they're explicitly good in much the same way it's easier to make messes than it is to repair them. This goes double for politics, since it's a field where you can't please everyone and have to break eggs to make omelets.

And in fact, in politics specifically, you're ironically making a much more controversial statement by claiming someone is good than claiming they're evil. This is in large part because saying a politician is evil actually is saying very little specifically-you're just saying "we need someone other than this person". However, saying someone is good is to coming out in support of that person specifically. It's a much more narrow target if you will.

Leviticus 19:34
nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#339637: Nov 16th 2020 at 9:52:40 PM

Dallas Morning News: Rep. Louie Gohmert sees 'revolution' as option in face of 'cheated election'

East Texas Congressman Louie Gohmert, insisting the election has been stolen from President Donald Trump, has urged like-minded supporters to consider "revolution" like the Egyptian uprising seven years ago and colonial America's revolt against England.

"They rose up though all over Egypt, and as a result of the people rising up in the greatest numbers in history, ever anywhere, they turned the country around ... If they can do that there, think of what we can do here," he told thousands of cheering Trump supporters in downtown Washington at Saturday's "Million MAGA March."

Gohmert is also the one that put forth a bill banning the Democratic Party (in response to people wanting to remove Confederate statues) earlier this year.

This is so dangerous and clearly meant to incite violence.

SpookyMask Since: Jan, 2011
#339638: Nov 16th 2020 at 9:56:50 PM

I'm just kinda flabbergasted that they can say anything they want and not get thrown out of the government? tongue

Like umm. So at what point system is so broken that one of the sides is like "we can just literally do whatever we want and have no repercussion"

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#339639: Nov 16th 2020 at 10:01:41 PM

I suppose the question is whether sedition requires manual impeachment.

nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#339640: Nov 16th 2020 at 10:06:22 PM

Perdue backs out of debate after being called a "crook," Ossoff will face off against empty podium ahead of their runoff election in Georgia, Democratic candidate Jon Ossoff calls Sen. David Perdue "a coward, too"

I'm glad the debate is happening whether Perdue shows up or not. Ossoff seemed like a pretty good debater the last time I saw him, so hopefully he'll be effective at pitching himself to voters.


The Fayetteville Observer: US House unanimously approves Lumbee Recognition Act

The Lumbee are a tribe in North Carolina, one of the largest in the east side of the country. Because they have not been fully recognized by the federal government, despite seeking to be since the 1950s, they are excluded from receiving many federal benefits.

Both Trump and Biden promised to support granting the Lumbee full recognition during their campaigns, and a bipartisan bill to that effect just passed unanimously in the House. It still has to pass the Senate, but both Republican Senators from the state back it, so hopefully it will happen soon.

Edited by nova92 on Nov 16th 2020 at 10:07:35 AM

devak They call me.... Prophet Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
They call me.... Prophet
#339641: Nov 16th 2020 at 10:18:13 PM

>With "Lesser Evil" in politics, my theory is that it's actually much easier to argue that something or someone is evil in some manner than argue that they're explicitly good in much the same way it's easier to make messes than it is to repair them.

I think this is just part of the US political culture. Stuff like attack ads aren't the norm everywhere on the planet. To name one example.

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#339642: Nov 16th 2020 at 10:35:27 PM

Seems like 2600 uncounted votes were found in Georgia’s recount, decreased Biden’s lead by 800. It doesn’t change anything but add to the right wing media’s message...

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#339643: Nov 16th 2020 at 10:37:51 PM

They would have claimed symbolism in not finding any votes, finding more votes for Biden, or some implausible scenario where everyone lost votes. And, obviously, they have been counted.

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#339644: Nov 16th 2020 at 11:10:25 PM

Tip: Instead of using "lesser evil," consider:

  • The better candidate.
  • The superior choice.
  • The natural choice for <insert group>.

"Lesser evil" is used by conservatives and their useful idiots on the left-wing to depress turnout. Don't play into that trap. Language and shibboleths matter.

"Yes and I will happily be positive when I have something positive about."

This is a loser's attitude. You're never going to get rid of the Republicans in Kentucky with an approach like that. Find something positive. It really isn't that hard — the GOP made Trump palatable to over 60 million people.

Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Nov 16th 2020 at 2:14:21 PM

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#339645: Nov 16th 2020 at 11:22:10 PM

Biden is not evil. He's not the perfect paragon of truth and justice, but he is a good person who will fight for good things. If 1 is pure evil, 10 is pure good, and 5 is average, this election is not a competition between a 1/10 and a 3/10, it's a competition between a 1/10 and a 7/10.

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#339646: Nov 16th 2020 at 11:26:09 PM

Of course, that assumes that people are distributed evenly between polar extremes. I'd say it's probably obeying some normal distribution around an average of 3, maybe 3.5.

Jman543 Since: Dec, 2014
#339647: Nov 16th 2020 at 11:29:24 PM

Some people value honesty. If someone is from Libya and supports liberal policies, for instance, they might well view Obama as having been the lesser evil (but still bad), because he did, in conjunction with NATO, destabilize the country and touch of a war that has led to conflict to this day. Without getting into whether the military intervention in Libya was a good or bad decision. So for such an individual, perhaps it would not be a situation of "they did not help people as much as I would have liked" but rather "they did not hurt people as much as they could have." That is not my opinion, of course, but there are many people out there who think that way. Or, for another example, I think it is a lot to ask for someone who views capitalism as instrinsically and extremely dangerous (again, not me) to not view any capitalist president (all the ones up to now) as some kind of lesser or greater evil.

Also I don't see what the argument is that the Republican Party tries to cast Democratic candidates as the lesser of two evils. From what I have seen, they have been trying to portray Democrats as the worst of all possible evils. To hear Trump and his surrogates talk, Biden is a Stalinist Communist who takes orders from masked anarchists, has a direct line to Xi, and drinks the blood of children in the basement of a pizza parlor.

In point of fact, they would really not like to promote the idea that Democrats are the lesser evil, because that leads to things like Joe Biden beating Donald Trump. Just look at the number of people who said they were voting against Trump instead of for Biden...it seems to have been a fairly effective argument, considering he may win the popular vote by about 4%.

Edited by Jman543 on Nov 16th 2020 at 11:35:31 AM

GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#339648: Nov 16th 2020 at 11:35:10 PM

I always thought the "lesser evil" approach was used to appeal to left wing people who already disliked the democratic candidate, and didn't want to be patronized by people going on about how great that candidate actually is.

If you dislike Biden, hearing people suck his dick isn't likely to make you want to vote for him, but if you hear someone being honest and telling you "You may not like Biden but he's objectively better than Trump and he's the only person with a chance of winning." then the raw pragmatism of that argument might win out. At least, that's how I always read that argument when I heard it.

I didn't know people used "lesser evil" to try and appeal to swing voters. I thought it was for already left wing people who were considering not voting at all, and don't want to be forced to like someone they don't like.

Edited by GNinja on Nov 16th 2020 at 7:36:03 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#339649: Nov 16th 2020 at 11:36:26 PM

I've exclusively heard it coming from people saying that they don't want to pick the lesser of two evils and therefore won't vote, or people who thought that Trump was better than Hillary. At least with relation to US politics.

Jman543 Since: Dec, 2014
#339650: Nov 16th 2020 at 11:37:56 PM

I don't know about the fellatio metaphor, but indeed, I do not think that it is a popular strategy to depress turnout. By the time you convince a far-left voter that Biden is the lesser evil, you have probably dug your own grave. That is the single most popular reason for both Trump and Biden voters to support their favored candidate.

Edited by Jman543 on Nov 16th 2020 at 11:38:37 AM


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