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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Perseus Since: Nov, 2009
#339276: Nov 13th 2020 at 3:49:41 PM

If politics were rational you'd be entirely correct, but sadly it is not and thus harmful narratives should be attacked as quickly as possible.

Preferably not while pushing your own, also harmful narrative in retaliation. (Not that you specifically were doing that.)

Edited by Perseus on Nov 13th 2020 at 10:52:12 PM

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#339277: Nov 13th 2020 at 3:54:27 PM

I'm wondering because I read the Hill pretty regularly and I don't recall seeing an article about Biden picking Emmanuel as his Chief of Staff nor pilling Republicans into his cabinet. Heck, I'm the one who brought up Biden picking at least one Republican for his administration. I think I would have noticed an article thinking along the same lines.

The only article I saw that could be similar was one about AOC expressing distaste at the idea of Emmanuel being the chief of staff, obviously written before Klaine got the job.

So I'm left wondering what the deal is with these articles.

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#339278: Nov 13th 2020 at 3:58:25 PM

It's not unusual to have a Republican in a Democratic cabinet. The Department of Transportation, for example, is one of the least ideological and most bureaucratic, where little is risked by having an ideological opponent in charged and much is gained by appearing to be bipartisan.

Ideas like that metastatize into "Biden is a crypto-Republican" because a lot of self-proclaimed leftists are young and/or new to electoral politics without a huge amount of political literacy. Now, if Biden was trying to push in a GOP stalwart as Secretary of State, that would be cause for alarm.

[up]Emanuel already had the Chief of Staff job, but his name is too radioactive in the Democratic stronghold of Chicago for him to be a serious consideration now. Democrats need that political machine money.

Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Nov 13th 2020 at 7:00:06 AM

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#339279: Nov 13th 2020 at 4:00:21 PM

So the Million Maga March hashtag has been hijacked by pictures of pancakes and waffles...

Sometimes, Tiktok is used for the cause of good.[lol]

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#339280: Nov 13th 2020 at 4:01:54 PM

Re: Emanuel for Co S, I found one article on Haartez on the subject.

[[quoteblock]]New York Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez publicly came out against former Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel being chosen to serve in the Cabinet of President-elect Joe Biden's administration.

“Someone like Rahm Emanuel would be a pretty divisive pick,” Ocasio-Cortez told the New York Times in an interview. Ocasio-Cortez, seen as a leader of the progressive wing of the Democratic Party, added that “it would signal, I think, a hostile approach to the grass-roots and the progressive wing of the party.”

Ocasio-Cortez later explained her opposition to Emanue, writing on Twitter that his fight with activists in Chicago over the police shooting of Laquan Mc Donald, a Black teen killed in 2014, disqualified the former mayor and chief of staff for former President Barack Obama.

"We must govern with integrity and accountability. Laquan Mc Donald’s life mattered," Ocasio-Cortez tweeted. [[//quoteblock]]

Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Nov 13th 2020 at 7:04:13 AM

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
JBC31187 Since: Jan, 2015
#339281: Nov 13th 2020 at 4:02:23 PM

Most politicians generally try to accomplish their campaign promises. It's how they get to keep their job, after all. Biden ran on a Green New Deal and expanding healthcare- I don't hope for much considering the opposition would rather burn the country down, but I think he'll at least try to keep his promises.

If there's a way forward, I think it's to stay organized and keep the pressure up on the sane political party. I feel that as long as we hold ground or inch forward, we can make it, but I really am terrified that we'll collectively go back to sleep and the Republicans will win again.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#339282: Nov 13th 2020 at 4:02:58 PM

That is just making me hungry for late-night waffles and pancakes grin

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#339283: Nov 13th 2020 at 4:06:31 PM

Preferably not while pushing your own, also harmful narrative in retaliation. (Not that you specifically were doing that.)

I'm a leftist, you're not going to have much success convincing me that most leftist narratives are harmful.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Perseus Since: Nov, 2009
#339284: Nov 13th 2020 at 4:09:50 PM

It would be hard for me to convince anyone of that, since I don't believe it and am not trying to do so.

Edited by Perseus on Nov 13th 2020 at 11:17:28 PM

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#339286: Nov 13th 2020 at 4:20:48 PM

The idea of Biden being a crypto-Republican is probably not helped by the DNC inviting Republicans to their convention last summer. That does suggest Biden is pursuing bipartisanship.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#339287: Nov 13th 2020 at 4:24:08 PM

Biden certainly wants an image of bipartisanship but how much actual bipartisanship he wants is another story. He already said that he would consider abolishing the filibuster if republicans proved too obstructive. That likely won't be relevant until at least 2022 (if the democrats have good midterms results), but still.

EDIT: Also, the idea of Biden being a crypto or moderate republican is a little strange when you consider the current republican party has very little space for actual moderates. The only exceptions are occasional RINO governors in blue states or other local officials.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Nov 13th 2020 at 9:25:28 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#339288: Nov 13th 2020 at 4:47:35 PM

The Sanders people seriously need to STFU. Biden won. There is no definite evidence that "more progressive" policies would have fared better.

People are blaming leftists for down-ballot losses, you can't expect us not to respond.

My two cents on the matter:

During a general election, it's important for Democrats on both sides of the aisle to come together and help support our joint candidate. The primaries are the time for moderates and progressives to duke it out over who should carry our platform but once the general starts, we need party unity to overcome whichever toxic asshole the Republicans are pushing (and especially this year, against the worst asshole yet).

But the general's over now so we're good to spend the next four years picking apart his record, his actions, and his performance. Biden was a desperation candidate so it's really to be expected that some people on the left will be going into his Presidency feeling less than enthused about the guy.

We are past the "Pull together and beat Trump" phase. As long as you turned out and voted for Joe (and downballot Dems, of course), you did your part. Whatever your opinion of the guy, you're welcome to it. The four-year "Biden: Good enough?" discourse has officially begun, to conclude climactically in the 2024 primary season.

If Bernie Sanders had won the primary, I'd have spent the last several months fighting hard to convince voters to turn out for him. And as soon as his win was locked in, I'd be right back to criticizing him for what I consider to be his weaknesses as a Presidential candidate. With Biden now headed for office, I expect nothing less from Sanders supporters.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 13th 2020 at 4:51:56 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#339289: Nov 13th 2020 at 5:02:02 PM

But the general's over now

It kinda isn’t though, we’ve still got the Georgia runoffs to happen.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#339290: Nov 13th 2020 at 5:10:46 PM

I'm a Sanders and Warren guy. We had our chance to win the primary but Joe won by a decisive one. I don't like Joe but he's made concessions to progressive policies he honestly didn't have to.

You fight with the army you have.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Nov 13th 2020 at 5:10:57 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#339291: Nov 13th 2020 at 5:11:59 PM

[up][up][up] I’m in agreement here. While I imagine Trump and the GOP’s antics will be capturing most of our attention for the next few months, I think now is the perfect time to criticize Biden (though I will personally reserve judgement at least until we’ve seen his Cabinet picks).

Anyway, while I could glean some idea from the previous mentions of him, why do people dislike Rahm Emanuel so much? I think most of his career has escaped my attention.

Edited by KarkatTheDalek on Nov 13th 2020 at 8:12:32 AM

Oh God! Natural light!
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#339292: Nov 13th 2020 at 5:12:57 PM

To be quite honest, judging from the legislation and policies Biden has already proposed I legitimately think his administration would be pretty decent if only he was able to have control of the Senate.

In fact, it always seems to come back to the Senate. The last time the democrats had a commanding majority there was Obama's 2008 victory IIRC.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#339293: Nov 13th 2020 at 6:06:11 PM

That’s my take too.

Btw, I think the Biden cabinet story might have been in Axios.

Alycus Since: Apr, 2018
#339294: Nov 13th 2020 at 6:34:34 PM

Yeah, I've said this before, but back when Obama was first elected, Democrats held the Senate seats for super red states like North Dakota, South Dakota, Arkansas etc. Taking those states back looks like a pipe dream given that unlike the Sun Belt states there doesn't seem to be a diverse coalition to rely on (i.e. they're almost entirely white).

Edited by Alycus on Nov 13th 2020 at 6:35:02 AM

Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#339295: Nov 13th 2020 at 6:57:27 PM

Re: "Biden is a crypto-Republican": Of course he isn't - the Republican party is reactionary to outright fascist, while Biden is not that. But that doesn't mean he's above criticism, like for his record as one of the more conservative Democrats during his time as a Senator. And on how we'll treat our neighbors in the Americas, evidence points to "more of the same" (meaning violent suppression and/or coups against any vaguely left-wing movement). I voted for him, but Biden's single best characteristic is being someone other than Donald Trump.

Honestly, my closest comparison for him is probably LBJ - someone who might not personally be as progressive as many would like but can see what way the wing is blowing and can be pressured into making progress domestically, but also someone who will largely stay the course on foreign policy.

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#339296: Nov 13th 2020 at 6:59:58 PM

Midterms are historically bad for Democrats, but if these last few years have shown us, being organized and enthusiastic can close the gap in the right places. Covid costs us a lot of opportunities to reach out to people that Republicans were able to go to instead, but fingers crossed that won't be an issue in two years.

Alycus Since: Apr, 2018
#339297: Nov 13th 2020 at 7:11:39 PM

I'm not seeing any evidence of Biden going to act Cold War-style on Latin America, quite the opposite really (note NYT paywall).

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#339298: Nov 13th 2020 at 7:14:36 PM

This just reminds me how in 2017 Republicans would say Doug Jones was a Crypto-Republican too.

I guess Republicans in Denial will always make Democrats who aren't as liberal as Bernie Sanders Crypto-Republicans. Blue Dogs are Dead, Crypto-Republicans are the new Democratic Caucus.

CookingCat Since: Jul, 2018
#339299: Nov 13th 2020 at 7:29:39 PM

Bill Maher is still being a defeatist shithead who thinks Trump will succeed in a coup, and thinks the military will obey Trump.

Edited by CookingCat on Nov 13th 2020 at 7:30:07 AM

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#339300: Nov 13th 2020 at 7:41:00 PM

I'm just hoping that we don't get two years of a Republican Senate stonewalling, then a bunch of supposed progressives going "look, see, Biden didn't immediately fix everything, he was always going to be useless!", then the Senate goes more red, and then the left refuses to turn out in 2024.

That's the nightmare scenario, and that's unfortunately what I already see rumblings of.

It's been fun.

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