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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#338201: Nov 8th 2020 at 10:02:04 AM

I read Foucault’s Pendulum last year, and it was really weird to see how it mirrored real-world current events.

The story is about three guys who, when their work brings them into contact with a pile of nutters obsessed with conspiracy theories around the Knights Templar, make up their own conspiracy theory about how the Templar are connected to major events all through several centuries of world history. But the conspiracy theorists decide that this made-up theory is the truth and latch onto it....

There’s no intention or profit motive on the part of the protagonists of Foucault’s Pendulum, unlike with the ones who created Q Anon, but the idea of a conspiracy initially made up as part of a silly in-joke being latched onto and believed by conspiracy theorists to the point of becoming dangerous is weirdly similar.

Umberto Eco didn’t predict the future, but he ‘predicted’ human nature with uncanny accuracy.

Edited by Galadriel on Nov 8th 2020 at 1:03:19 PM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#338202: Nov 8th 2020 at 10:04:27 AM

The comments themselves are not particularly smart or insightful taken by themselves. You have, "Hold the line, patriots!", "Trump has a plan!", and "We have to stay strong!" However, then it starts having people questioning things more like, "Maybe they finally got to [murdered] Q." The other people who are questioning things are often shouted down more directly.

But already the tide is turning. It goes beyond that because Qanon is being dismantled as a terrorist threat due to an unexpected thing as well, with deplatforming. Which goes to show what a paper tiger it was to begun with.

During the election, planned demonstrations and attacks on polling places were planned and....Facebook just banned all of the users involved and all of the groups. The people then didn't have each other's numbers, addresses, or a way to contact one another. In effect, a huge amount of violence or controversy was prevented by simply showing these people are idiots.

Twitter has also purged all Q content from their archives. This has also had a maddening effect on them but not really enraging aside from "CENSORSHIP!" It basically shows how powerless they are.

Like Trump, it seems one of the largest terrorist groups in the world is about to go with a whimper rather than a bang.

It also DEFINITIVELY answers, "Should you deny terrorists a platform?"

YES.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Nov 8th 2020 at 10:05:39 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#338203: Nov 8th 2020 at 10:05:45 AM

A lot of Americans WANT Medicare For All, and I don't know if the public option that Biden has planned will be enough or even necessarily happen.

I believe that a majority oppose Medicare for All, but support the option to opt into Medicare. Which if done properly would result in de facto Medicare for All as it would be picked up by everyone.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#338204: Nov 8th 2020 at 10:14:12 AM

At this rate, the entire transition team is going to need full NBC gear.

NBC gear? more like Hazmat suits!

I hope the trasiton team is one the ball. i wouldn't put it past the soon to be ex-president to try to get Biden and Harris inflected.

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Nov 8th 2020 at 10:30:24 AM

Makir Since: Feb, 2017
#338205: Nov 8th 2020 at 10:15:28 AM

What made Q Anon and other Far Right conspiracy theories so popular is that claiming your enemies to be pedophiles, no matter how wrong and lacking in proof it is, is a thought-ending statement. It's the highest possible evil, which is how the ringleaders manage to direct the rage of clueless people towards innocents.

The "Think of the children!!!" tactic has been used literally since Medieval times, in which Jews were accused of performing satanic child sacrifices with no real proof. It's a very effective strategy.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#338206: Nov 8th 2020 at 10:32:34 AM

I think the people behind QAnon should be arrested for domestic terrorism incitement.

Edited by Forenperser on Nov 8th 2020 at 7:32:48 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#338207: Nov 8th 2020 at 10:51:07 AM

It is not actually clear that a majority of Americans support an immediate transition to nationalized health insurance. Certainly most people support the basic ideas behind it, but the enormously successful propaganda machine of the right has painted it alternatively as "socialism", "taking away choice", and of course dismantling the relatively successful employer health insurance system.

Obviously, I believe we need to go there eventually, and if we could pass a comprehensive and properly planned bill, get it past court challenges, and implement it, it would be of enormous benefit. However, I can't help but notice a lot of missing steps in that plan that require cooperation at multiple levels of government: cooperation we have no reason to expect.

A "public option" is a way to transition from one system to the other that preserves the essential concept of choice. People will see a menu of health insurance options that includes a public plan that should end up being substantially cheaper. Then if someone wants to stand on ideology or pride and intentionally pick a more expensive plan with less benefits, they can do so.

Edited by Fighteer on Nov 8th 2020 at 1:54:37 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#338208: Nov 8th 2020 at 10:55:48 AM

I don't know if it's been mentioned here already but there seems to already be some mini-drama due to a speech AOC gave.

I think the gist is she is trying to shift the over-ton window, and a lot of moderate Democrats are making a fuss because they haven't won Georgia yet, and rocking the boat like this at this point in time. is supposedly too risky.

This is one of the problems I have with the Democratic Party, they like to play it safe most of the time, and wind up making too many compromises that the overton window shifts further right. If now isn't the right time to rock the boat, then when? Is it even confirmed these progressive policies as opposed to moderate ones are driving away voters?

Edited by Xopher001 on Nov 8th 2020 at 8:58:02 PM

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#338209: Nov 8th 2020 at 11:01:09 AM

She is just giving fuel for the Republicans for the Georgia special election, after an election victory there would be the best time to do that.

Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#338210: Nov 8th 2020 at 11:04:23 AM

Maybe I'm just not as exposed to the side of Twitter that sees her as the Devil incarnate, but to me it looks like its mostly moderate Democrats that are calling her out. Which is a bit strange since I don't really see what's so radical about saying "racism is bad, y'all, maybe we should get on it" or "Healthcare is something people should have".

Edited by Xopher001 on Nov 8th 2020 at 9:10:51 PM

TheRoguePenguin Since: Jul, 2009
#338211: Nov 8th 2020 at 11:06:48 AM

Instead of caring about supposed fuel for Republicans (which is nonsense, because Biden got labeled a socialist despite running against it), Democrats just need to be willing to go to the mat for their ideas. Ignore BS Repubican framing because you've already lost if you try to adapt to it.

GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#338212: Nov 8th 2020 at 11:07:38 AM

[up]x4 No, the moderates are just doing factional infighting when they say that. We probably don't really have the hard data yet to make definitive claims one way or the other, but there's already a strong argument to be made that progressive Dems tipped the election for Biden, and the majority of the population is leaning towards more progressive policies.

Edited by GoldenKaos on Nov 8th 2020 at 11:07:52 AM

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#338213: Nov 8th 2020 at 11:09:10 AM

Note that in this instance at least, the guy she is responding to is not a Democrat.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#338214: Nov 8th 2020 at 11:10:17 AM

Yeah before moderate Dems start blaming her for the races they lost I’d like to see some actual evidence.

She’s entitled to push back on the idea that it’s her fault that they lost. Likewise she’s right that when ti comes to campaign strategies the activist based style of campaigning has done wonders, that’s exactly what’s been used in Georgia, hell it’s what helped Republicans in Florida.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#338215: Nov 8th 2020 at 11:14:15 AM

I would like to see some more substantive evidence that calls for progressive policies cost Democrats votes, since there's an equal narrative in the opposite direction. It's possible that both are right to some degree: that moving either way opens up some votes while costing others, and if that is the case, the two sides need to sit down like grownups and work it out.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
ScubaWolf from South Carolina Since: Feb, 2020
#338216: Nov 8th 2020 at 11:15:39 AM

[up] Good luck with that, as much as moderates have been fighting against progressive ideas. Not even compromise seems to sit well with them (though I admit there are those in the progressive side who are exactly the same). They just clutch their pearls.

Edited by ScubaWolf on Nov 8th 2020 at 2:16:11 PM

"In a move surprising absolutely no one"
GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#338217: Nov 8th 2020 at 11:16:47 AM

There's a strong argument to be made that Ilhan Omar keeping the door to door campaign going in Michigan and doing events to whip up voter registration and voter turnout might well have been crucial in flipping Michigan.

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#338218: Nov 8th 2020 at 11:17:12 AM

My thoughts apropos of little hard data is that progressiveness could've cost the presidential election, which is why Biden was able to do so strongly in the traditional blue wall as well as flip some states blue. But for the centrist wing to to presume it costs downballot elections is presumptuous.

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#338219: Nov 8th 2020 at 11:22:27 AM

We should display election results in the Splatoon format.

I could also see Pearl being a Trump supporter prior to her meeting Marina.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#338220: Nov 8th 2020 at 11:23:16 AM

Again, I'd like to see some hard evidence about it. My personal feeling is that infighting is what costs the most votes because it creates the impression that Democrats are broken up into factions that have no interest in working together. This may also not be true, but it is alienating nonetheless.

When looking at priorities for our government, we need to weigh multiple factors: immediate existential crises, long-term existential crises, immediate social crises, and long-term social crises. If we don't address social issues, we may lose the ability to deal with the existential ones, but if we don't get to the existential ones sooner or later, we won't have a society left to worry about.

Social issues include healthcare, the economy, social justice, and so on. Existential issues include military threats, epidemiological threats, and of course climate change.

No one administration can hope to solve all of these, only sort them and work on the ones that are most crucial; this is bound to annoy people who make something their pet issue. If all you care about is climate change, than working on the economy may seem pointless, but you need a solid economy to deal effectively with climate change. If all you care about is healthcare, then working on social justice may seem pointless, but you can't fix healthcare if you get voted out of office.

These are all synergistic problems. It is dangerously short-sighted to fixate on a specific issue at the expense of others.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#338221: Nov 8th 2020 at 11:23:30 AM

I don't know if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but I would like to formerly thank the true unsung hero of this election: Comrade Jo Jorgensen.

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#338222: Nov 8th 2020 at 11:29:52 AM

Libertarians also take votes from Democrats, that’s why Biden has been able to gain votes in states where Trump didn’t loose any, he picked up 2016 Libertarians voters.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#338223: Nov 8th 2020 at 11:32:11 AM

I wonder how Congress would look if we had an STV system instead of FPTP. Probably wouldn't run into this issue of splitting the vote as much, and it might also allow for the viability of larger third parties

Edited by Xopher001 on Nov 8th 2020 at 9:32:23 PM

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#338224: Nov 8th 2020 at 11:34:31 AM

Have third parties become more viable in Maine since they introduced STV?

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#338225: Nov 8th 2020 at 11:34:57 AM

See, in Canada, we also use the First Past the Post system, yet we have five major parties at the Federal level.

Edited by WillKeaton on Nov 8th 2020 at 12:35:31 PM


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