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Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#337401: Nov 4th 2020 at 2:52:15 PM

We have a results watch thread people, more than happy to answer questions there.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#337402: Nov 4th 2020 at 3:47:42 PM

Huh, I didn't know that existed.

And... it's on the thread header. Ok, I must be blind.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Reflextion from a post-sanity world (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
#337403: Nov 4th 2020 at 3:51:40 PM

Change blindness is such a fun thing, isn't it? (don't worry, I missed the header update too)

Edited by Reflextion on Nov 4th 2020 at 6:52:16 AM

Someone did tell me life was going to be this way.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#337404: Nov 4th 2020 at 3:52:06 PM

Make the banner bright green already!

Edited by Ultimatum on Nov 4th 2020 at 12:08:38 PM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#337405: Nov 4th 2020 at 4:04:19 PM

Change blindness is such a fun thing, isn't it? (don't worry, I missed the header update too)

It certainly is.

And thanks smile

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#337406: Nov 4th 2020 at 5:12:10 PM

meanwhile in Puerto-Rico

As per the article this their sixth nonbinding referendum on statehood,hopefully this time with enough pressure congress will actually do something like admit them into statehood,it's long overdue at this point

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#337407: Nov 4th 2020 at 5:13:46 PM

With a republican senate I'd say the possibility of that is low, however many bones has been made about the fact that it might not be a democratic state if it were admitted.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#337408: Nov 4th 2020 at 5:27:57 PM

[up] I feel like admitting Puerto Rico as a state shouldn't really be a partisan matter.

It's got enough people for statehood to make sense, so as far as I'm concerned if they want statehood (as this referendum indicates), then they should have it regardless of who they may send to the Senate.

GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#337409: Nov 4th 2020 at 5:40:15 PM

Well, it's up to the people of Puerto Rico really, but there's also nothing that isn't a partisan issue when it comes to the GOP. As long as they can keep the US in a state of stagnation rather than progression, they benefit from rising apathy towards the "progressive" party who aren't managing to do anything, so they benefit from stonewalling anything and everything the Dems do as their default position.

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#337410: Nov 4th 2020 at 5:40:43 PM

Neither do I, but I'm not sure the senate will allow it.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#337411: Nov 4th 2020 at 6:07:23 PM

The funny thing is that Puerto Rico's territorial government seems to be leaning conservative (though the parties all have left and right wings because Puerto Rico party politics revolve heavily around statehood rather than other issues), in part because of disillusionment with the Democrats and continental social liberals who have refused to make any sort of strong commitment to the cause of statehood each time a previous referendum has come up pro-statehood.

I wouldn't be surprised if as a state, Puerto Rico would actually be pretty competitive. It certainly wouldn't be guaranteed blue seats like DC would be as a state.

SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#337412: Nov 4th 2020 at 6:11:58 PM

I wonder, will Donald Trump ever be unlocked after he’s defeated and kicked out of office, or will we keep it locked for all eternity?

Edited by SatoshiBakura on Nov 4th 2020 at 9:12:21 AM

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#337413: Nov 4th 2020 at 6:13:45 PM

[up]I can’t imagine his base ever moving on from holding him up, so my money’s on keeping it locked.

My musician page
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#337414: Nov 4th 2020 at 6:27:50 PM

Permanent lock probably.

Like maybe in four or so Years we could unlock it if the MAGA movement has died down. But that's a Big if.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#337415: Nov 4th 2020 at 7:20:49 PM

Maybe unlock it briefly to get rid of that weird last paragraph. I mean, if he lost the election in 2020, the current year, why even mention Clinton conceding the 2016 election to him. It feels like a huge anticlimax.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#337416: Nov 4th 2020 at 7:30:30 PM

It'd probably be done by request through the Locked Pages thread instead of getting a temp unlock. Unlocking for any amount of time is bound to be a disater.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#337417: Nov 4th 2020 at 11:52:49 PM

Use the edit requests for locked pages thread for that discussion, please.

Regarding Puerto Rico, I recall that Republicans historically supported PR statehood as well. More importantly, given that Trump did fairly well among Latino voters - including Puerto Rican ones - in Florida, there might be some support among Republicans. Especially among Florida's Republican Senators Rick Scott and Marco Rubio, who actively campaigned among Puerto Ricans and won their elections, in part, on the strength of their Latino support.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#337418: Nov 5th 2020 at 12:34:59 AM

If Puerto Ricans want statehood, we ought to let'em be a state.

The only question is whether or not they want statehood. So many past referendums have failed to conclusively answer this for various reasons.

Wish we had more Puerto Rican posters who could offer their thoughts.

Edited by M84 on Nov 6th 2020 at 4:36:44 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#337419: Nov 5th 2020 at 2:55:27 AM

So if this is being interpreted correctly the most brazen "idea" (I am not sure if it's already the "plan") of Trump to get mail ballots thrown out is not getting a warm reception even on FOX.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#337420: Nov 5th 2020 at 4:45:33 AM

They voted for it this time.

And of the six Puerto Ricans I know, 5 of them supported statehood. They just didn't have much of a big feeling on it and felt it would be a hassle. They all became INTENSELY pro-statehood after Trump's handling of them.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
singularityshot Since: Dec, 2012
#337421: Nov 5th 2020 at 5:16:45 AM

Arguably then, the best thing that the pro-statehood party (which caucuses with Republicans IIRC) could do is try and convince Republicans that they could make Puerto Rico a Republican State.

Then we go back to the tradition of expansion in pairs: one Democrat state added at the same time as a Republican state, in this case DC for Puerto Rico.

I doubt they would be successful, and anyway it wouldn't be an even trade: Hell would freeze over before a Republican won in DC whereas the best the pro-statehood party could argue is that Republicans would be competitive in Puerto Rico.

Out of interest however, does anyone know what adding DC or Puerto Rico as states would do to the House? How many seats would they get and which states would lose out on seats as a consequence?

nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#337422: Nov 5th 2020 at 5:22:52 AM

[up] It's mixed up with the 2020 Census results so hard to tell, but population estimates put Puerto Rico between Utah and Iowa, so 4 Congressional districts, and DC is between Vermont and Alaska, so 1 at-large district. Don't know which states would lose out in that scenario, though.


Out of curiosity, what was the turnout for the vote like? I remember the last referendum had abysmal turnout, which didn't do any favors for its legitimacy.

Edited by nova92 on Nov 5th 2020 at 5:24:02 AM

megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#337423: Nov 5th 2020 at 5:26:40 AM

When Alaska and Hawaii were added, they each got one representative and no one lost anything, so for a couple years the House had 437 Representatives. Although I'm not sure the situations are equivalent, since the next reappropriament was a couple years away and Hawaii only bumped up from one to two seats while thr House shrunk back down to 435.

The damned queen and the relentless knight.
SgtRicko Since: Jul, 2009
#337424: Nov 5th 2020 at 5:59:05 AM

[up] Well I'm in a weird spot. I've spent my whole life on Guam, a US Territory, yet both my parents are Puerto Rican, and they're definitely pro-statehood. Yet, while my dad was alive he recognized that the chances of Statehood were going to be slim for a bunch of reasons, ranging from the federal govt finding it undesirable to the island populace themselves being divided on the issue. And strangely enough Guam and Puerto Rico are a mirror of each other in many ways, political leanings and desire for more representation included. Oh, and both islands generally lean on the Democrat side of things... until Trump screwed that up.

Gets a bit more diverse when you factor in that Spanish is still a widely spoken language in Puerto Rico, even to the point of some citizens using it as their primary language. Contrast Chamorro, the original native language in Guam, which is no longer spoken as a primary language by anyone save for a VERY literal handful of die-hards. Oh, and Guam is crazy pro-military: we've got the highest recruitment %rate of the United States.

EDIT: Dang... Ninja'd!

Edited by SgtRicko on Nov 5th 2020 at 11:59:33 PM

MichaelKatsuro Since: Apr, 2011
#337425: Nov 5th 2020 at 6:25:40 AM

Sorta like how a single armband sets off warning sirens.
What's wrong with armbands? Or are you talking about red, Nazi-esque ones especially?


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