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Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#335326: Oct 26th 2020 at 5:45:36 AM

[up][up] While I agree with that in general, I don't know how true it is with Biden. Did Democrats vote for him because of his politics, or because he was the safe bet against Trump? That makes a rather big difference in your argument, because that could mean Biden does not necessarily represent a majority opinion of Democrats, but only represents a majority opposition of Trump.

This is the problem with negative partisanship in a nutshell too.

Edited by Redmess on Oct 26th 2020 at 1:46:55 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Imca (Veteran)
#335327: Oct 26th 2020 at 5:52:09 AM

Small sample size but the preceding evidence of Hillary ALSO decimating Bernie in the primaries would sugest that its for moderate politics.

Though I would personally argue it is a distinction without a difference, because "I am willing to go with this for a safe victory" shows that the most important part of your politics currently is said victory.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#335328: Oct 26th 2020 at 5:56:57 AM

Yeah, but the politics side is going to be very important once he wins.

In the worst case, this could result in Biden being a rather unpopular president. I don't know how bad that would be in practice.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
MichaelKatsuro Since: Apr, 2011
#335329: Oct 26th 2020 at 6:03:19 AM

[up][up][up][up] True. The majority of people are dead, and they are silent.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#335330: Oct 26th 2020 at 6:04:35 AM

Hillary won over Bernie by 16,917,853 to 13,210,550.

In other words, a very strange idea of "decimated"

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Imca (Veteran)
#335331: Oct 26th 2020 at 6:05:02 AM

Honestly if he wins he will probaly be a pretty unpopular president by the end of his term even if he does right by most Democrats.

The republicians are going to veiw it as stealing the election from Trump because they can never admit they were wrong, and that's nearly half the people disliking you right there...

Between Republicians and whatever wing of the Democrats he upsets I will be suprised if he has more approval then somewhere in the 40% range at the end of his first term.

[up] Thats nearly an extra 20% up with a notedly unpopular canidate, so yes that is decimated...

Edited by Imca on Oct 26th 2020 at 6:07:18 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#335332: Oct 26th 2020 at 6:05:02 AM

[up][up] This is exactly my point. If Sanders were that popular, why'd he lose? Because Clinton was more popular. Ergo, there is not a "majority" for Sanders.

[up] There's absolutely no evidence to support that. People keep saying that they "know what Biden will do" in office. The man is condemned before he spends his first day on the job. With Trump, it was predictable, but that's an exception.

Welp, the superspreader-in-chief is coming to my county for a rally today. I guess we know where the next spike is going to hit. And we were doing so well.

Edited by Fighteer on Oct 26th 2020 at 9:08:05 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#335333: Oct 26th 2020 at 6:08:37 AM

If your objection is that your party (Democrat or Republican) refuses to respect the majority opinion of its constituents, that is clearly a problem, but I'm not seeing that with the Dems. The majority of the primary voters wanted Biden, so they got Biden. If there's this overwhelming majority that wants things Biden doesn't stand for, where is it? It didn't make itself heard and therefore doesn't exist in a meaningful sense.

This isn't entirely untrue, but... the presidential primary system is a mess. Candidates can potentially be knocked out by just four out of fifty states (and not necessarily states that are all that representative of the national population, either). A bunch of states get effectively no say whatsoever. I mean, speaking personally Elizabeth Warren was probably my favorite candidate this year, but I didn't vote for her in the Texas primary because everyone seemed to agree her campaign was already in such deep waters it would have felt like a waste. Biden's done quite well as a candidate IMO, so this post isn't written as an attack on him specifically - but I wouldn't call him the choice of the party any more than Trump was the choice of the country in 2016.

Considering that for a lot of people in both parties the primary pretty much is the election as far as actually putting thought into your vote goes, primary reform really ought to be way higher up the priority list then it actually seems to be.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#335334: Oct 26th 2020 at 6:11:47 AM

As a Pennsylvanian, I would have liked to have a say in the primary as well. That's a valid point. Still, I wasn't going to vote for Sanders unless it came down to something like him and Bloomberg and the polling reflected broad support for Biden across the country, so I'm in that majority that everyone likes to talk about.

Edited by Fighteer on Oct 26th 2020 at 9:13:09 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Imca (Veteran)
#335335: Oct 26th 2020 at 6:12:46 AM

[up][up][up] I am not giving my personal thoughts on how Biden will do with that, nor saying he is going to loose in 2024 if he wins. I am simply guessing which way the winds if public oppinion will blow, and in a way that is condemned before he even takes office because if who he follows...

I have pretty decent Hope's for how he will handle things, I just cant see the public feeling the same way with how polarized the right is, and how vocal some elements if the left are.

It's kind of silly to pretend he isnt following some one the Republicans quite like, or that he isnt going to get hit with the economic fallout if Trumps time in office and blamed for it like every president before him was given credit or blame for economic policies of there predecessor, or that both mater what he does it's going to upset some people for not being enough.

Those are things that are going to need to be accounted for and prepared for, rather then just being blindsided when 2024 rolls around.

Edited by Imca on Oct 26th 2020 at 6:17:40 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#335336: Oct 26th 2020 at 6:25:29 AM

Thats nearly an extra 20% up with a notedly unpopular canidate, so yes that is decimated...

Are we rewriting history that Hillary was an unpopular candidate? She was the darling of the Democratic Party and Sanders was a dark horse candidate that wasn't even a member of it.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#335337: Oct 26th 2020 at 6:26:33 AM

[up][up] We can assume that Biden will not be popular with Republicans. There's a approval ceiling for any President these days that can't be helped. This is about Democrats liking his performance.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#335338: Oct 26th 2020 at 6:38:25 AM

A darling of the party, sure, but of the people? That is indeed debatable, and from what I've heard, she was an historically unpopular candidate.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#335339: Oct 26th 2020 at 6:47:02 AM

She was a historically polarized candidate. She was mostly either loved or hated. Very few people were ambivalent on Hillary Clinton. She was seen as either an elder statesman with decades of political experience, well thought-out policy proposals, and the toughness to force her way into a system that hated her, or as a conniving witch with no principles except the drive to amass ever-more power regardless of what she had to do to get it and a string of broken and discarded political enemies behind her to prove it. Relatively few people thought "she'd be okay, I wouldn't mind her as president but I'm not excited about her candidacy" or "I don't like her, but President Hillary Clinton wouldn't be the end of the world".

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#335340: Oct 26th 2020 at 6:58:00 AM

Yeah, in that regard she is actually similar to Trump, who also has very few people who are indifferent or 'Well he is okay' about him.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#335341: Oct 26th 2020 at 6:58:12 AM

As I recall, if you take away the names or party affiliations, the ideas of the leftists like free education or nationalized heathcare are the most popular ones among the majority, including Republicans. It's just that when you start using words like socialism that everyone gets scared off. In other words, people really are that stupid.

That said, Biden has clearly adopted a lot of those popular ideas into his platform so I have no problem with him whatsoever, even if I would have preferred Warren.

Edited by Clarste on Oct 26th 2020 at 6:58:37 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#335342: Oct 26th 2020 at 7:00:52 AM

If Biden wins I'll be satisfied with his next four years of office regardless of what happens. Mainly because I am that confident that another four years of Trump would be so so much worse.

It helps that his platform is genuinely a pretty good one.

Edited by M84 on Oct 26th 2020 at 10:01:52 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#335343: Oct 26th 2020 at 7:03:19 AM

I just hope Trump won't make a comeback for 2024 in that case.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#335344: Oct 26th 2020 at 7:04:30 AM

Nah, the people who support him now will simply find a different reactionary godhead to worship.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Alycus Since: Apr, 2018
#335345: Oct 26th 2020 at 7:08:02 AM

Yeah, I suspect the possible GOP opponents to look out for in 2024 would be Pence, Pompeo, and some high profile Republican Senator that isn't Mc Connell.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#335346: Oct 26th 2020 at 7:09:35 AM

Apparently the Trump children are talking about running in 2024. I can’t remember whether I saw it here or on Twitter, and I’m not in a position to post the links, but I will later if someone doesn’t beat me.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#335347: Oct 26th 2020 at 7:12:40 AM

While I'm sure the Trump family would love a dynasty, I'm not sure they have that same madman charisma that people apparently like about Donald.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#335348: Oct 26th 2020 at 7:14:32 AM

America does love its presidential royal families though, so I am entirely not surprised by that.

Funny, for all their dislike of monarchies, Americans sure love powerful families staying in power.

This doesn't happen in the Netherlands with our P Ms, if you were wondering. I assume most people find one royal family more than enough drama, thank you very much.

Edited by Redmess on Oct 26th 2020 at 3:15:49 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
singularityshot Since: Dec, 2012
#335349: Oct 26th 2020 at 7:15:35 AM

Junior put a post on twitter saying Trump 2024 "to make the libs' heads explode"

So probably trolling at this point, but as others have stated "owning the libs" is about as a coherent policy you get out of the GOP these days so in that sense he is the mainstream GOP candidate.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#335350: Oct 26th 2020 at 7:17:40 AM

Eh, I can totally see him doing an ironic will-I-or-won't-I post, then doing it anyway. Given how cagey actual candidates are about their candidacy before they start running, there is just no way to know how seriously to take it.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times

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