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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#335051: Oct 24th 2020 at 12:04:06 AM

The answer is of course "all of them".

Disgusted, but not surprised
TitanJump Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Singularity
#335052: Oct 24th 2020 at 12:57:05 AM

I still can't understand what the GOP have against ACA anyway.

I mean, its not like they have come up with anything better themselves.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#335053: Oct 24th 2020 at 12:59:55 AM

They hate the idea of public health insurance period. They don't want anything in the place of the ACA. They want to go back to the times before the ACA was ever a thing.

Disgusted, but not surprised
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#335054: Oct 24th 2020 at 1:00:09 AM

Because if they didn't constantly kneecap it, the result is that insurance has to take on customers who present massive risk. The entire US health insurance industry is built around either charging exorbitant amounts, or getting healthy people to pay for squat in insurance and as soon as they need insurance force them to pay as much as possible directly, then kick them off insurance entirely if it's unprofitable.

Which is the exact opposite of how even a sane insurance system should work, because the idea is that you pay to be covered in the event of unforeseen circumstances, not that you pay to be price-gouged and denied any coverage as much as possible.

Kardavnil The Polisci Majoris from Sweden Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: In my bunk
The Polisci Majoris
#335055: Oct 24th 2020 at 1:00:27 AM

@Titan: Because it's associated with Obama. And apparently it's absolutely essential to tear down anything done by a member of a minority group, no matter the cost. Gotta keep 'em in their place...

Edit: [up][up] That too.

Edited by Kardavnil on Oct 24th 2020 at 1:01:54 AM

Roll a Constitution saving throw to make it through the year.
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#335056: Oct 24th 2020 at 1:53:26 AM

As long as the insurance industry is for-profit, they will do everything possible to charge as much as possible while providing the least service possible, because that's what makes an insurance company profitable. An insurance company that does what it's supposed to is an unprofitable company.

But since the GOP's pie-in-the-sky ideal is to kill all the poor in order to line their pockets, obviously any kind of healthcare reform is poison to them.

Edit: For the record, I'm pretty sure that if they could make just as much money without killing the poor they would still choose to do so because that's just as much a core part of their ideology.

Edited by Clarste on Oct 24th 2020 at 2:03:34 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#335057: Oct 24th 2020 at 2:04:53 AM

As long as the insurance industry is for-profit, they will do everything possible to charge as much as possible while providing the least service possible, because that's what makes an insurance company profitable. An insurance company that does what it's supposed to is an unprofitable company.

There's a couple of notations from the child of an insurance agent.

1. It is insane and stupid to make insurance the basis of your medical coverage. Whoever thinks this is a solution needs to be sent to the Phantom Zone with the other Kryptonian criminals. Insurance is dependent on people not getting sick as the whole idea is to pay for an eventually that MIGHT happen versus a certainty of happening.

2. Hospitals and pharmaceuticals charge have made insurance the defacto need for this despite the absurd charges. Say, $100,000 for a weekend hospital stay or $500 a pill that costs 2 bucks to make. However, they try not to charge the customer directly but their insurance which results in the costs being thrown on other customers or trying to force people off the policy. Because they charge absurd amounts to bilk sick people of money.

3. Medicine should be a public utility and service. People can pay more but a basic standard is the only sane way to operate as charging money for people's lives is a gang activity.

Edit: For the record, I'm pretty sure that if they could make just as much money without killing the poor they would still choose to do so because that's just as much a core part of their ideology.

Mitch Mc Connell actively sabotages feeding poor people by churches, opiod protections, and medical coverage because he wants them to die. He is a monster.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Oct 24th 2020 at 2:07:26 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#335058: Oct 24th 2020 at 2:06:03 AM

One useful thing about early voting is that it confirms polls, polls show that early voting should be overwhelmingly Democratic, early voting numbers (where they exist) are overwhelmingly Democratic, if polls are accurately capturing the early voting share for each candidate then they should be accurately capturing the overall vote share for each candidate.

As for the 5 point polling error in the Midwest for Hillary in 2016? Biden is up by at least 6 points in all of those key Midwestern states, so he can currently survive a 2016 style polling error against him, that’s before we factor in that pollsters have learnt from 2016 and that part of 2016 was late-change due to Comey as opposed to error.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#335059: Oct 24th 2020 at 3:39:28 AM

Ultimately what the GOP of these days wants is "if you can't pay for it, you can't have it. And its your problem how to be able to pay for it"

If they had truly their way, this would be for *everything*

Firefighters? Pay a subscription.

Schooling? School at home if you can't pay tuition.

They basically want back to serfdom feudalism, just replace Noble with Rich.

Government should only be there to enforce the will of the Rich on the serfs.

Edited by 3of4 on Oct 24th 2020 at 12:40:14 PM

"You can reply to this Message!"
TitanJump Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Singularity
#335060: Oct 24th 2020 at 3:53:51 AM

[up] In that case, they (The GOP) have no right to complain or whine once the people gets fed up with their BS and decides to take matters into their own hands once betrayed one too many times by the corrupt system the GOP wants in place to only benefit themselves while screwing everyone else over.

Edited by TitanJump on Oct 24th 2020 at 12:54:07 PM

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#335061: Oct 24th 2020 at 4:07:19 AM

Of course they have the right, this is how the world is supposed to be. How dare the serfs object to that

"You can reply to this Message!"
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#335062: Oct 24th 2020 at 4:16:11 AM

The basic premise of feudalism is that nobles are special. They deserve to rule over the peasants because of their intrinsic nature, not because of anything they've done. The same is true of modern Neo-Feudalism: the ruling class sees itself as inherently more deserving than the lower classes. If anything bad happens to someone poor they deserve it, but if anything bad happens to them it's the most unfair thing that's ever happened in the history of mankind. "Criminals" are the scum of the earth who deserve the worst possible punishments, but if a rich person breaks the law? Well, that's not a real crime. Rich people can't be criminals, because criminals are poor brown people.

To them, behavior is fundamentally meaningless. You're either born a good, deserving person or you're not.

Edited by Clarste on Oct 24th 2020 at 4:17:27 AM

Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#335063: Oct 24th 2020 at 4:20:00 AM

Steal a Snickers, eat a 250 euro fine on the spot. Steal someone's wages, and maybe be forced to actually pay them after many lawsuits.

Yay capitalism.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#335064: Oct 24th 2020 at 4:28:20 AM

They tend not to steal only one person’s wages due to that being small potatoes. Instead they tend to stiff a lot of workers at once. That’s when they get a class action suit up their ass.

The Snickers thing is simply because it is way easier to prove someone stole a candy bar. Just look at the CCTV footage.

Also, they rarely outright steal wages. Instead they do shit like lay off workers for flimsy reasons or make pay cuts for flimsy reasons. Then pat themselves on the back at shareholder meetings and suggest they deserve raises.

Edited by M84 on Oct 24th 2020 at 7:41:53 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#335065: Oct 24th 2020 at 4:47:27 AM

Sometimes they just literally go "nah, I don't feel like sending you a check today" though.

Like "literally not paying someone for work they have done" is like 500 times more lost money than physical theft. It's just way too much cost/effort for most low-level employees to go to court and enforce a contract violation that would be trivial to prove. Even if a few of them do it, the company still profits from the practice because of all the others who don't.

Edited by Clarste on Oct 24th 2020 at 4:53:31 AM

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#335066: Oct 24th 2020 at 4:51:55 AM

Okay, 500 times was an exaggeration, but here's wikipedia on wage theft:

Nationally it is estimated that workers are not paid at least $19 billion every year in overtime[14] and that in the US $40 billion to $60 billion in total are lost annually due to all forms of wage theft.[15] This compares to national annual losses of $340 million due to robbery, $4.1 billion due to burglary, $5.3 billion due to larceny, and $3.8 billion due to auto theft in 2012.[5]

Wage theft is not even remotely rare or unusual.

Edited by Clarste on Oct 24th 2020 at 4:55:16 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#335067: Oct 24th 2020 at 5:04:04 AM

That is why employers discourage people from discussing their wages with coworkers. If enough of them realized they were being screwed...well, it’s strike and/or class action suit time.

Edited by M84 on Oct 24th 2020 at 8:05:50 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
minseok42 A Self-inflicted Disaster from A Six-Tatami Room (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
A Self-inflicted Disaster
#335069: Oct 24th 2020 at 5:18:39 AM

I don't know when was the last strike to accomplish anything, but IIRC the air traffic controllers strike in 1981 was the beginning of the end, as Reagan just fired everyone who went on strike

"Enshittification truly is how platforms die"-Cory Doctorow
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#335070: Oct 24th 2020 at 5:37:50 AM

Steal a Snickers, eat a 250 euro fine on the spot. Steal someone's wages, and maybe be forced to actually pay them after many lawsuits.

Steal garden sheers While Black, get sentenced to life in prison, and barely get out after 26 years due to other people fighting the courts every step of the way.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#335071: Oct 24th 2020 at 5:41:04 AM

The Republican mindset dovetails with the Prosperity Gospel (horseshit) and Ayn Rand's philosophies that the rich are also justified in doing whatever it takes to be rich. Which, ironically, underscores that their belief in free market capitalism is also nonsense.

In a market where the forces of the market regulates, workers will use their will to force the market to pay them a living wage. The Republicans smash down on this to keep the employer in power.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#335072: Oct 24th 2020 at 5:45:34 AM

There's another aspect to Republican behavior that Paul Krugman frequently points out. It's not just that they oppose the government forcing companies to play fair, it's that they oppose government doing anything at all.

To the Republican mindset, PPACA (Obamacare) cannot succeed because, if it did, it would prove that government can provide solutions to systemic problems: that it can make people's lives better. Their mantra is tearing down government in the name of individual and corporate freedom.

It's the same with COVID-19 relief. If the government effectively backstops the economy, keeps people out of poverty, and keeps businesses open, it makes a case for "big government", which they fundamentally oppose.

For decades, the GOP has taken a "starve the beast" mentality wherein they set out to prove that government can't help people by sabotaging every effort it makes to help people. This is a deliberate and calculated strategy that we have to understand to learn how to deal with it.

Well-intentioned Democrats often seek compromises with Republicans to "pay for" aid programs and things like that, not realizing that they're missing the real point of the opposition. "Fiscal responsibility" is a sham, discarded when it doesn't suit the moment. Obama failed to understand that... perhaps his greatest failing, as he tried to meet halfway someone who had no intention of ever negotiating in good faith.

Republicans do not believe in the legitimacy of government.

Edited by Fighteer on Oct 24th 2020 at 8:50:52 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#335073: Oct 24th 2020 at 5:51:36 AM

As the saying goes, the Republicans campaign on government not being able to do anything...then go on to prove it once they get into power.

Disgusted, but not surprised
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#335074: Oct 24th 2020 at 5:53:50 AM

Krugman falls for the same problem that he did when he was championing globalism (and has since come regret) in that he believes that the people involved are acting on a basis of what they claim. https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/10/22/economists-globalization-trade-paul-krugman-china/

The GOP has no problem with government despite their anti-government rhetoric. They are huge champions of bailouts, not just tax cuts, but active support of their chosen supporters. This applies to corporations, megachurches [which are corporations], law enforcement, and other groups.

"Small government" is a lie they sell because its all about the cash.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#335075: Oct 24th 2020 at 5:55:27 AM

They believe that government should pander to the rich and powerful rather than keep them in check.

Disgusted, but not surprised

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