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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#334851: Oct 22nd 2020 at 7:39:38 PM

Trump was already likely going to win Texas anyway.

SteveMB (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#334852: Oct 22nd 2020 at 7:41:03 PM

"That's base pandering."

And pandering to the base.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#334853: Oct 22nd 2020 at 7:42:16 PM

I am curious if this the moderator being stricter might actually help Trump because it'll be interpreted as Trump being more disciplined.

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#334854: Oct 22nd 2020 at 7:42:26 PM

So, at the end of the debate, the wives came up (both wearing masks). Biden had put his mask on so fast, it was in place by the time she arrived. Biden went over to the host to thank her from a socially distanced position. In the background, however, Trump (no mask) didn't go over to the host, but said something to her from where he was standing. He had a slightly peeved expression on his face and shoved Melania in front of him to indicate he wanted to leave the stage. That... made me do a double-take. He sort of flung her left arm away quite hard as she was turning towards the exit, and then shoved her a bit (not as dramatically). Not a good look.

[up]He talked over the moderator a lot. It came off as him disrespecting a woman to me. I don't know if I'm interpreting it that way because I'm a woman, but I didn't feel he had any respect for the moderator at all. She sort of caved to him initially, but became stronger and firmer as the debate wore on, which I don't think he was happy about.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Oct 22nd 2020 at 3:48:20 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
ABNDT Since: Mar, 2011
#334855: Oct 22nd 2020 at 7:49:12 PM

He may not have literally told her to shut up, but he definitely came close a couple of times.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#334856: Oct 22nd 2020 at 7:49:19 PM

Trump really doesn't like it when women challenge him in any way.

Disgusted, but not surprised
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#334857: Oct 22nd 2020 at 7:50:12 PM

[up]

Women particularly, but anyone challenging him is taken with the height of umbrage.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#334858: Oct 22nd 2020 at 7:51:03 PM

I just had a quick look at social media... #TrumpMeltdown is trending away. And two of Joe Biden's expressions are already turning into memes:

  • Biden's expression when Trump said 'I'm the least racist person in the room.'
  • Biden's expression when Trump started banging on about the 'phoney witch hunt'.

I know social media isn't exactly representative, but it amazes me how fast people manage to capture video clips to turn into memes.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Oct 22nd 2020 at 3:54:17 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Scarecrow4774 from In Wonderland Since: Mar, 2017 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#334859: Oct 22nd 2020 at 8:03:50 PM

No one's mentioned this but Biden's "Abraham Lincoln here" comment was great.

“We’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad.” - Lewis Carroll
TitanJump Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Singularity
#334860: Oct 22nd 2020 at 8:04:53 PM

Well, my disgust for Trump just reached a new height with his utter lack of humanity on full display.

And his racism overclocked through multiple subjects.

He cares not for people getting sick from pollution, thinking that money is all that matters.

He cares not for the planet and its air, thinking the United States are living under a isolated dome of glass.

He cares not for the suffering children or doing a single thing to find their parents, thinking that their "lodging"(aka "Dog cages") are good enough.

This hateful little punk has zero compassion or humanity whatsoever for anyone that isn't him, and the way he straight up lied during this just made him even less likable.

Also, I thought there was supposed to be a mute button during this debate.

Where did that go?

TheRoguePenguin Since: Jul, 2009
#334861: Oct 22nd 2020 at 8:09:56 PM

They were muted during opening statements and I think Trump got cut off once or twice when rambling, but it wasn't strictly enforced.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#334862: Oct 22nd 2020 at 8:10:58 PM

There wasn’t a button, instead the mics were shut off for the initial two minutes that their opponent got.

So they each got their initial two minutes, then it was a free-for-all like the first debate.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#334863: Oct 22nd 2020 at 8:12:38 PM

I do like how Trump says he's done more for African-Americans than any President other than Lincoln, while he forgets that LBJ existed.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TheAirman Brightness from The vicinity of an area adjacent to a location Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Brightness
#334864: Oct 22nd 2020 at 8:15:47 PM

[up]Not other than Lincoln, possibly other than Lincoln.

PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/They
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#334865: Oct 22nd 2020 at 8:15:50 PM

He actually did claim that he might have done more than Lincoln, he then flipped on it when called out.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#334866: Oct 22nd 2020 at 8:19:38 PM

I doubt he can name much more historical presidents besides Lincoln.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#334867: Oct 22nd 2020 at 8:20:16 PM

I'm curious if there's going to be a general consensus on who won this debate as opposed to the first won.

And even if there is, how much will it matter as this point.

Edited by LSBK on Oct 22nd 2020 at 10:20:36 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#334868: Oct 22nd 2020 at 8:20:23 PM

I wonder if Trump even knows what Lincoln did beyond a 4th grade reading level.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
TheRoguePenguin Since: Jul, 2009
#334869: Oct 22nd 2020 at 8:21:32 PM

LBJ has been pointed out to Trump before. Trump wasn't entirely sold on the benefits of what he did.

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#334870: Oct 22nd 2020 at 8:31:32 PM

Well, this debate is much better than the first one on account of the fact that it didn't dissolve into absolute chaos.

The legend has returned.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#334871: Oct 22nd 2020 at 8:39:21 PM

I did like watching most of this one; the first one was hard to watch because while I expected-and even kind of wanted-it to be a bit chaotic, I was assuming it'd be more amusing than it was in practice (it stopped being funny then became just really grating and annoying).

Trump really came out looking a douche this time, and I mean even more than usual. He actually reminded me of a specific angry drunk guy I knew (who is now recovering fairly well I believe). Biden also got a few moments of awesome.

Leviticus 19:34
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#334872: Oct 22nd 2020 at 8:41:30 PM

The Lincoln exchange: A case of Trump not understanding sarcasm.

Biden: Abraham Lincoln here is one of the most racist presidents we've had in modern history. He pours fuel on every single racist fire. Every single one. Started off his campaign coming down the escalator saying he's going to get rid of those 'Mexican rapists'. He's banned Muslims because they're Muslims. He has moved them around and made everything worse across the board. He says about the Poor[sic] Boys last time we're on stage here 'I told them to stand down and stand ready'. C'mon. This guy has a dogwhistle about the size of a foghorn.
Trump: No-no, he made a reference to Abraham Lincoln. Where did that come in?
Biden: You said you're Abraham Lincoln. You said—
Trump: Where did that come in? No! No. I said 'not since Abraham Lincoln has anybody done what I've done for the black community'.
Biden: And I'm saying—
Trump: I didn't say I'm Abraham Lincoln! (Biden bursts out laughing) I said 'not since Abraham Lincoln has anybody done what I've done for the black commun—'.

Note: Biden did say 'Poor Boys' instead of 'Proud Boys'. No-one seems to care.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Oct 22nd 2020 at 4:42:54 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#334873: Oct 22nd 2020 at 8:47:23 PM

Well, another night, another debate.

  • Well well, both candidates seem to be late. Wonder what's going on with that.
  • First topic, coronavirus.
    • Trump goes first, blaming China, claiming he is doing well, as is to be expected. Trump does admit to not knowing whether he is immune for life or just four months.
    • Biden goes in for the attack on Trump, talking about the actual facts. Biden also explains his actual plans for when he is elected.
    • The debate continues, with Trump promising that a vaccine will likely come before the end of the year. Biden predicts a dark winter, and Trump tries to put the swine flu on Biden, as well as saying that Biden was too late with the response himself. Biden reminds us Trump was praising China initially. Trump riffs on Biden for living in a basement, which does get a chuckle from Biden. Trump talks about recovering from his disease, and pleads for reopening the country and learning to live with it. Biden counters with an appeal to the people left behind by patients dying. Biden says he wants to shut down the virus, not the country (which sounds a bit confusing and could become a bad sound bite for him). Trump wants to reopen schools and save restaurants, pointing out New York is dying. Trump also claims Faucci was opposed to masks and said it was not going to be a problem. Biden doubles down on Trump's early lies. Trump tries to paint his lack of funding as not making shady deals, while he paints Biden as shady for making shady deals for campaign money.
  • Next topic, election interference and foreign relations.
    • Biden makes a clear promise that countries who interfere will pay the price, including Russia, China, and Iran.
    • Trump replies that Biden got millions of dollars from Russia, claiming he never got money himself, and asks for an explanation. Trump also claims no one is tougher on Russia than him. Trump also refers to emails implicating Biden in receiving those millions, though I haven't heard about that.
    • Biden of course denies taking money, and attacks Trump on taking money himself and not paying taxes. Trump promises to release his tax returns eventually, and says he paid millions in taxes. Trump claims the IRS is keeping him from releasing them. Biden attacks him on this. Trump counters about being attacked with investigations from the Dems. Burisma comes up, and Biden denies that anything shady was going on. Trump claims he has no conflict of interest and the bank account in China is simply part of his normal business. Biden wants China to play by the international rules and attacks Trump on cozying up to dictators and making enemies of allies. Trump claims he paid farmers with money from China, rather than tax money. Biden appeals to American families hurting economically. Trump does have a point that Biden was deflecting there somewhat for political effect. The discussion moves to North Korea. Trump boasts about his good relationship with Kim, and there not being any war with NK. Biden makes clear he will be tough on North Korea, as with China. Biden says he would only meet with Kim if he agrees to denuclearization. Biden says they had a good relationship with Hitler before the war, which I'm not sure is an argument you want to make.
  • Next topic is the economy and the Supreme Court voting on ACA, as well as immigration.
    • Trump promises to terminate Obamacare, or to run it better in future. He makes vague promises about providing better health care.
    • Biden wants to turn ACA into Bidencare.
    • Biden pushes back against the idea that his plan is a socialist health care plan. I'm not sure how true this really is, it sounds like just wanting to avoid the word socialist. Trump disagrees, but Biden makes clear that people just need affordable health care, period. Trump talks about Bernie, but Biden rebuffs that he is the one running, not Bernie. Biden makes a good point that stock market movements don't mean much for ordinary people without stocks. Trump blames Pelosi for not being able to approve a bill for aid to unemployed people. Biden counters that Mitch won't pass it either, and that Dems have been pushing the bill since summer. Trump claims that Democratic bailouts was of criminal companies and illegals. Biden emphasizes unity in helping all Americans. Biden supports raising the minimum wage. Trump opposes it, and says it should be a state option. Next question is immigration and child separation. Trump claims these children have been brought here by criminals. Biden strongly rails against the practice. Trump laser focuses on who exactly built the cages, which is rather besides the point. The moderator questions Biden about Obama's failure to overhaul immigration policy, and Biden agrees, but says he will overhaul it. Trump blames Biden for catch and release and for building cages, and refers to immigrants as murderers and rapists again. Trump also seems to think it a good thing that family reunification is impossible.
  • Next topic is racism and police brutality.
    • Biden condemns institutional racism and profiling, and attacks Trump for working against inclusion.
    • Trump focuses on Biden's past, and his crime bill, calling black people "super predators". Trump claims Obama and Biden didn't do anything about criminal justice reform, and he did, as well as prison reform.
    • Biden disavows Trump's claims, and talks about Trump's own racist claims. Biden talks about Obama prison reform and rehabilitation. Trump asks why he didn't do it four years ago, and that he ran because Obama and Biden did a bad job. Trump attacks Biden on Russia again, and Biden insists on defending himself, distracting from the topic. Trump talks about his bad impression of Black Lives Matter, and claims to be the least racist person in the room, claiming he has done many good reforms for black people. Biden reminds us of all the racist things Trump has said. Biden seems to make a gaffe about Trump being Abraham Lincoln, which was a little confusing. Biden defends his crime bill again, and admits it was a mistake. Trump again blames Biden for getting nothing done, which Biden disputes.
  • Next is climate change.
    • Trump talks about loving the environment and clean air and water. Trump claims the US has the lowest number in carbon emissions, and claims Biden doesn't know what that means. Trump blames China, Russia, and India for being filthy, and says he left the Paris accord for treating the US unfairly.
    • Biden talks about climate change being an existential threat. Biden reminds that Trump overturned many climate regulations, and the damage it does. Biden is going to invest in sustainable energy and technology.
    • Trump claims Biden's climate plan will be an economic disaster, and that the plan was developed by AOC plus three (not sure what he means by that). Trump claims the plan requires smaller or no windows. Biden says the future lies with labour and sustainable technology providing jobs. Trump claims the US is energy independent. Trump claims windmills kill birds and producing them produces more carbon emissions than industry. Biden rules out banning fracking, unfortunately, but says he wants to capture emissions from it. Biden clarified that he opposed fracking on federal land only. Trump claims black families living near polluting industries make a lot of money (not sure what his point is there). Biden counters that these people do indeed suffer from pollution. Biden reiterates that fossil fuel needs to be transitioned to renewable energy.
  • Final questions on leadership: what will the candidates say to the public in their inaugural address.
    • Trump basically says he will make America great again, once again. He says he will cut taxes, and Biden will raise them, and cause a depression.
    • Biden says he will be president to all Americans, choosing science over fiction, hope over fear. Biden wants to move forward, growing the economy and dealing with systemic racism, creating millions of jobs.

Well, that was a great debate, what a difference that was. I heard no interruptions, and both kept pretty good to the rules. Both candidates were sharp, and the moderator was sharp as well, keeping good control over the debate.

Both candidates did well, really, all things considered. Of course I don't doubt that Trump lied a lot, and I still don't believe him or agree with him at all, but he gave a good debate, and was actually quite presidential. Biden also did very well, and seemed more confident than last time.

  • Both candidates gave strong and opposing opinions on how to deal with the pandemic, Trump wanting to reopen and save the economy, and Biden wanting to protect lives. Of course both sides have their merits, and the real question is where to find the balance between lockdowns and economic pain. I agree for instance with the idea that schools should reopen, but also agree that lockdowns must be maintained at least locally and during peaks, with financial compensation. Biden makes a good point about Trump not doing enough and dismissing the virus early, though Trump seems to be right about Faucci and others underestimating the virus as well (though to be fair, most of the world did).
  • On election interference and foreign relations, there was a lot of back and forth over finances, and Biden does not get away quite unscathed here: he does fully have the backing of Wall Street, and seems to be profiting from making deals with them to fund his election. Of course Trump is hardly innocent of shady dealings, but he does seem to have lost the backing of Wall Street himself. As noted by some commentators, Biden also seems to have profited greatly from being VP, and again Hunter's involvement with Burisma and Biden's failure to intervene there is not a good look for him. Trump also has one of his main points in his favour here: he has not started any wars, and he kept the peace with North Korea, even managing to get the countries talking, at the very least.
  • On healthcare, it is basically the familiar story from both. Trump wants to abolish ACA, Biden wants to expand it, and Trump makes vague promises about providing a better health care plan. Trump has lost one of his major trump cards, namely the economy, but at least can promise to reopen quickly and get the economy back up and running. Biden promises to raise the minimum wage, which is probably the most important immediate reform to make. On immigration, Trump keeps pushing on Biden building cages, and Biden never really refutes that. Biden does have the problem that Obama was the Deporter in Chief, and that no real reform was made (at least as far as I can tell).
  • On racism, Biden this time gives a much clearer message on the problems of racial profiling and police brutality, though I do note he never directly talks about the role of the police themselves, only the effect they are having on black people. I still haven't heard what, exactly, he is going to do about the police.
  • On climate change, Trump does acknowledge the problem of pollution to some extent, but of course ends up defending fossil fuels anyway, creating a good tag line for his ads in the South. Biden says he is going to end the fossil fuel industry, which he did not have to do and might hurt him a bit in the South because of that.
  • On leadership, Trump's answer was really more about Biden, while Biden focussed on what he promises the American people, giving the stronger message.

Even though Trump definitely did a lot better, Biden comes out as the winner, not only because I agree with his politics, but because he held his own well and made a much stronger impression. It ended up being a good, informative debate, at least on Biden's side. This is not going to hurt Trump, I think.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#334874: Oct 22nd 2020 at 8:50:20 PM

I'm thinking it's at the point where unless a twist happens, no one's gonna change their minds either way.

The legend has returned.
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#334875: Oct 22nd 2020 at 8:52:14 PM

[up][up] The obvious thing to point out is that early reopening does more economic damage.


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