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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#33376: Oct 18th 2012 at 12:26:55 AM

That's really happening? Because there was a previous link about it that phrased everything like an Onion article. I mean, it even mentions "guy who owns a copy of An Inconvenient Truth" near the end.

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#33377: Oct 18th 2012 at 12:28:27 AM

My dad can't comprehend that Romney can win.

However, it still seems Obama has the key electoral states still in his favor. So we MAY see Gore v Bush 2.0.

Cept this time in the democrats favor.

Skatepunk Since: Feb, 2011
#33378: Oct 18th 2012 at 12:30:34 AM

[up]

Still can't comprehend why my mom is still pro-Romney. I appreciate that we both agree to disagree (she knows my views) but I simply can't understand it.

BTW, Keith Judd ran from jail too. And did frighteningly well in West Virginia.

Dammit! I appreciate moving from a blue state to a swing state and all, and I'm still furious that my only other non Obama candidate I'd vote for is Gary Johnson.

But I guess everyone's right. Without Anderson and Stein available even as write-ins, and living in a swing state, Obama's the best available option. Of course, I love Gary Johnson's views on war.

edited 18th Oct '12 12:31:57 AM by Skatepunk

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#33379: Oct 18th 2012 at 12:37:38 AM

Earlier conversation and links actually puts third party candidates on most of the ballots, either as options already there or write ins. But strategic voting pretty much requires us to vote Obama anyway, or the split vote will lead to a Romney win. Or Obama, if you're on the conservative side and would vote Constitution or Libertarian.

Seriously, at some point whether or not we should alter our voting system is going to become an issue in this country. Like, a serious one.

Skatepunk Since: Feb, 2011
#33380: Oct 18th 2012 at 12:41:14 AM

[up]

It better become an issue soon!

Thankfully CNN had Stein and Johnson on together. So that leaves some hope.

But hope is not enough. Soon (which the consensus is after this election) we need action.

Hopefully Occupy Wall Street and the Tea Party (the actual Tea Party and not the pro-Bank congressmen) push for this king of reform.

Of course OWS is already doing so.

Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#33381: Oct 18th 2012 at 12:53:34 AM

@Braebern

You can run from jail, but can you participate in debate from one?

[up][up]Well, if you really have a problem with voting for Obama, then might as well vote for a third party. Then it's not a real spoiler because you weren't going to contribute to the major parties either way.

But that's the thing - I haven't seen Obama really done anything that problematic, something that you just don't like about his administration. There just hasn't been many such hit-or-miss moments besides healthcare.

ch00beh ??? from Who Knows Where Since: Jul, 2010
???
#33382: Oct 18th 2012 at 12:55:32 AM

Indefinite detention is kind of a thing

"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story." Twitter
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#33383: Oct 18th 2012 at 12:58:05 AM

The only problem I see with Obama that I have is he hasn't been able to do enough.

No thanks to congress of course.

Romney winning does actually scare me if he does all the shit he promises.

Enkufka Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ from Bay of White fish Since: Dec, 2009
Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ
#33384: Oct 18th 2012 at 12:58:27 AM

Indefinite detention was quickly struck down, with Obama having added the signing statement “"I have signed the Act chiefly because it authorizes funding for the defense of the United States and its interests abroad, crucial services for service members and their families, and vital national security programs that must be renewed . . . I have signed this bill despite having serious reservations with certain provisions that regulate the detention, interrogation, and prosecution of suspected terrorists."

Solved before it became a problem.

edited 18th Oct '12 1:04:36 AM by Enkufka

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry
Skatepunk Since: Feb, 2011
#33385: Oct 18th 2012 at 1:05:16 AM

But the Grand Bargain could cut all kinds of middle class services.

Gary Johnson also supports these cuts, although thankfully he supports a much more realistic military budget.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#33386: Oct 18th 2012 at 1:05:27 AM

When did it get struck down?

Also, plenty of people are mad that he signed it anyway, considering that there was nothing in his statement that prevented succeeding presidents from enforcing it. And also don't realize that it was attached to the paychecks of our soldiers. (Or don't care.) Basically, that was a situation that was pretty much gauruanteed to make him come out bad, no matter what. People seem to have forgotten about it by now, largely, but for some it's still an issue.

@Trivialis: the thing about strategic voting is that it's such an imbedded part of our current process that most people wouldn't even consider voting for a third party. In fact, a lot of people will just not vote rather than consider third parties. There's a reason third parties tend to contain nutjobs; they're the dedicated extremists in a lot of cases, rather than those willing to work with others to achieve goals. (I do not consider Greens extreme, but their relatively fringe status allows them to have a foreign policy that largely wouldn't work. IE; nuclear disarmament.)

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#33387: Oct 18th 2012 at 1:17:29 AM

Obama not signing the NDAA and denying funding to the soldiers would have caused 10 times more political damage.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#33388: Oct 18th 2012 at 1:20:34 AM

As I recall, that indefinite detention thing got so much support from the Senate that it was veto-proof anyway, so it's not like Obama had a choice in the matter.

Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#33389: Oct 18th 2012 at 1:32:53 AM

Signing statements hold no power. They're basically a readme.

If he really wanted it out, he'd have vetoed it, then publicized "Yo dawg, your congressmen want me to pass a bill that says I can shit on due process whenever, and they're holding the military budget hostage to do it." It would've been grade-A ammunition. He signed it because he wanted it, and he did it in a very quiet timeframe to draw as little attention as possible.

edited 18th Oct '12 1:34:34 AM by Pykrete

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#33390: Oct 18th 2012 at 1:48:17 AM

That's because not voting for the NDAA is essentially a career ender. The Indefinite Detention thing was paper-clipped onto the actual authorization act, which essentially as noted above, budgets money for the entire Department of Defense (sic: The Entire US Military).

Not voting for it is tantamount to essentially saying "Why yes, I really would love my career in politics to end forever." As your opponent could carpet bomb you with ads claiming you refused to supply our troops with money for equipment, and they'd be right.

That and one could argue the president had the moral high ground by deciding to fund the troops over petty political squabbles. And whoever uses the Indefinite Detention for political motivated reasons and gets exposed for it is going to suffer the political fallout for it, not Obama.

Morven Nemesis from Seattle, WA, USA Since: Jan, 2001
Nemesis
#33391: Oct 18th 2012 at 2:03:22 AM

I thumped Ekuran's post on the last page for being excessively condescending to another troper. You can disagree without that. Please don't step over that line again.

edited 18th Oct '12 2:03:59 AM by Morven

A brighter future for a darker age.
Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#33392: Oct 18th 2012 at 2:22:07 AM

I figured it would be taken as condescending, though I meant every word. But no line crossing, got it.

[up][up][up]Republicans: "Yo dawg, Hussein Osama hates our soldiers and wants to let his no good sand nigger muslim terrosist bros loose."

In other words, Pykrete, you should probably stop thinking facts can actually influence these people.

edited 18th Oct '12 2:24:21 AM by Ekuran

TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#33393: Oct 18th 2012 at 5:13:57 AM

[up] So, short of an armed uprising (something which I hope never happens), what would it take to actually get them to take their heads out of their large intestines?

edited 18th Oct '12 5:14:19 AM by TrashJack

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
terlwyth Since: Oct, 2010
#33394: Oct 18th 2012 at 5:29:51 AM

I've said it before,...it's pretty much looking like 1980,...except Carter only debated once and might've won if he didn't sit out because of Anderson

Obama seems to be losing it,despite not sitting out and debating the whole time,...so in a way its worse.

It won't be a landslide though since Romney doesn't have enough charisma to do that

ohsointocats from The Sand Wastes Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#33395: Oct 18th 2012 at 5:43:23 AM

If Romney gets elected, I probably won't be able to finish college. Urgh.

GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#33396: Oct 18th 2012 at 5:46:18 AM

http://xkcd.com/1122/ : xkcd weighs in on the idea of electoral precedents. (And electoral presidents, I guess...)

#33397: Oct 18th 2012 at 5:56:05 AM

I thought most of the companies that got bailed out eventually paid back all the money the government gave them?

Of the roughly $50 billion we gave GM, they have paid back just under $7 billion, which technically, was all they owed, because the other $43 billion was paid in the form of GM stock at the price $53 a share. When the Obama administration or GM executives talk about "paid back in full" they are referring to the $7 billion figure. GM stock is currently trading at $25 per share, so the government stands to lose almost half the bailout money we gave them unless something changes drastically, while GM didn't even have to pay interest on that money.

edited 18th Oct '12 5:57:32 AM by EdwardsGrizzly

<><
GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#33398: Oct 18th 2012 at 6:13:00 AM

Ah, I see.

Just curious, do you have numbers for the banks/insurance companies/financial firms?

edited 18th Oct '12 6:13:49 AM by GlennMagusHarvey

GearLeader from Dota Hell Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Married to the job
#33399: Oct 18th 2012 at 6:17:16 AM

I always fear for a threads safety when i see pink on post.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXkI1sTDoEg
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#33400: Oct 18th 2012 at 8:22:20 AM

My understanding is that TARP has been mostly paid back, and in many cases returned a profit to the government on the money spent. The auto industry bailout may well have returned less than the amount invested, but it did save the U.S. auto industry and countless jobs.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

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