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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#333401: Oct 11th 2020 at 1:53:08 PM

He who fights monsters must see to it that they do not become monsters. But he who does not fight monsters is already one.

Leviticus 19:34
MichaelKatsuro Since: Apr, 2011
#333402: Oct 11th 2020 at 1:54:17 PM

You know, as a foreigner (from the perspective of a U.S. citizen), I keep being surprised at how much there is that I don't know about U.S. politics.

It's like Marvel comic books—even if you've been a fan for decades, there's always a hero, or a villain, or an entire team of either, that shows up, and you go Wait, who's that?

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#333403: Oct 11th 2020 at 1:55:41 PM

I think it's a fairly universal feeling. I get a lot out of hearing non-US posters talk about the political situations back home, especially countries that get the othering treatment in the media.

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#333404: Oct 11th 2020 at 1:57:07 PM

You can reform the game anyway you want to if you can convince a majority of voters to go along with it.

Aaaaand why can't we do that?

i'm tired, my friend
MichaelKatsuro Since: Apr, 2011
#333405: Oct 11th 2020 at 1:57:19 PM

Also, the betting site that gave you 2 times your money for a Trump win 19 days ago now offer 2.9 times your money.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#333406: Oct 11th 2020 at 2:00:38 PM

I admit, what I'd like to see is everyone who attempted to fix an election end up with 5-10 years in a federal penitentiary.

Starting with Georgia's Governor.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#333407: Oct 11th 2020 at 2:12:51 PM

Kemp is both stupid and corrupt. I'd argue he's possibly he's the worst current governor but the competition is fierce with Death Santis and Abbot.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Codafett Knows-Many-Things Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Waiting for you *wink*
Knows-Many-Things
#333408: Oct 11th 2020 at 2:24:57 PM

The problem with the sudden popularity of politics is that most people have no idea how deep the rabbit hole goes. After all, life is a never ending play with a rotating cast. Just because someone isn't in the spotlight doesn't mean they just stopped existing. For example, most people didn't know who Dr. Fauci was before the pandemic and now he has T-shirts.

Just Having Fun
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#333409: Oct 11th 2020 at 2:33:35 PM

The first thing a US Senate should do under the Democrats is pass every bill they made with the House.

Should be remembered, all bills in the current Congress expires when the next Congress is sworn in.

This is why bills like pet projects and impeachment are reintroduced every two years.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#333410: Oct 11th 2020 at 2:35:13 PM

So I just finished reading an article that I think helped relax me about Biden winning in November. It turns out Trump's tactic of trying to delegitimize the Election isn't the first time Republicans in the Modern Day have tried; in 1960 Nixon's cronies (with Nixon's blessing) tried to delegitimize his loss against John F. Kennedy. Several Republican-led states ordered recounts in contested Districts, only to find no serious miscount or fraud, and in fact the only serious miscount was in Hawaii that Nixon then lost to Kennedy. Attempts by Nixon's aides to get Republican Legislators to just put in Republican Electors instead of the rightful Democratic ones were met with harsh rejection. Nixon, for his part, was smart enough to keep himself distant, so people only complained about his Aides acting like toddlers.

So while Trump and his cronies may attempt to delegitimize the Election, the odds are great that they will collapse, just as Nixon's attempt did.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#333411: Oct 11th 2020 at 2:55:27 PM

The main danger is if the election were close, then Repbulican majority state legislatures trying to insert electors loyal to the party might tip the election the other way. There's also the probability that they will try to declare a lot of mail-in ballots void for whatever reason (but only in certain districts—you know which ones). If the election is not close, then even those tactics will not work.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#333412: Oct 11th 2020 at 6:13:50 PM

The mechanisms of democracy only matter inasmuch as they provide a fair and just nation to live in. Rules exist to serve the people; people do not exist to serve the rules.

While I agree on the whole, it's important to remember that not all rules are created equal. Things like the size of the supreme court are longstanding norms but ultimately not important to the cause of just governance. Those sorts of norms shouldn't be thrown out for no reason, but changing them in order to address a wrong (eg, expanding the court to counteract McConnell and Trump's forcing through illegitimate SCOTUS nominations) is valid and legitimate.

Other things are important in and of themselves, and should not be changed even if doing so would give us an advantage. Gerrymandering, for example, is bullshit regardless whether it's Democrats or Republicans doing it — gerrymandering itself is a problem that needs to be eliminated. In other words, the reason we should oppose gerrymandering isn't because it lets Republicans win elections, the reason we should oppose gerrymandering is because gerrymandering is bad. So the solution isn't "gerrymander in favor of Democrats instead of Republicans", it's "don't allow gerrymandering".

There's no simple hard-and-fast rule for judging which norms are which. We can only take them on a case by case basis.

Edited by NativeJovian on Oct 11th 2020 at 9:14:10 AM

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#333413: Oct 11th 2020 at 6:19:54 PM

Of course, with gerrymandering we run into an interesting point: in the absence of a system of multi-member constituencies (i.e. so long as it's FPTP—or, to be honest, that mixed member list system), is it good or bad to gerrymander a district such that you fit as many minority voters into one place such that they form a majority and are guaranteed to therefore get representation?

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#333414: Oct 11th 2020 at 6:24:42 PM

Even gerrymendering can have its legitimate purposes.

But, yeah, we need to keep in mind what we're talking here. Because I hear things like "stop playing softball" or whatever I go to "use the same loopholes they use to get in power" not things like "suppress Republican voters the way they try and suppress Democratic voters."

Obviously no one here was directly saying that, but these conversations can lead to that thinking if we don't keep things like that in mind.

Edited by LSBK on Oct 11th 2020 at 8:25:13 AM

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#333415: Oct 11th 2020 at 6:57:43 PM

How about we keep positive discrimination out of politics altogether.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#333416: Oct 11th 2020 at 6:58:31 PM

How does gerrymandering have positive influences ?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Imca (Veteran)
#333417: Oct 11th 2020 at 7:15:13 PM

Populations tend to cluster, it can be usefull to make sure that voting districts share a more even distribution compared to the whole.

Also just drawing squares on a map has issues with population density distribtution that means that your always going to need to use funky shapes to get any kind of equal voting districts out of it.

Bluntly, the only way to get decent voting districts is to let a machine handle it, because its just going to be a mess of caculating various things out.

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#333418: Oct 11th 2020 at 7:21:20 PM

How does gerrymandering have positive influences ?

Let's assume you have a region with five districts, and 80% of them are white and 20% of them are black. You can draw all five districts equally such that every district has 16% white voters and 4% black voters. Now assume that when all is said and done, you have a roughly 8% fixed support for each party in any given district, and the black voters tend to be 3:1 for Party A, making up 3% of one of those 8%'s and 1% of the other. In this scenario, whether any of the minority voters get a representative they voted for is completely down to the 4% of majority swing voters.

Or you can draw the districts to produce a map where most of the population is composed of minority voters, and they can therefore elect a representative that considers minority interests (because it's their entire constituency).

TL;DR: if you pack minority voters into one district, they can actually elect someone that cares about them.

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#333419: Oct 11th 2020 at 7:37:26 PM

In Canada, electoral districts are redrawn at predetermined intervals by a nonpartisan electoral boundary commission, taking into account multiple different factors (including “respecting communities of interest or identity”, i.e. endeavouring to keep natural groupings - like a neighbourhood with common characteristics - together). It works well.

https://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=res&dir=cir/red/bck&document=index&lang=e

Having them drawn by politicians who will favour their own party is a ridiculous way to do it.

Edited by Galadriel on Oct 11th 2020 at 10:42:38 AM

Ayasugi Since: Oct, 2010
#333420: Oct 11th 2020 at 7:40:25 PM

I guess that's why gerrymandering is so easy to pull off, fair districting has to find the balance between sticking all of one demographic in one district (so they only get one representative and spreading out that demographic as a minority among all districts (so they're always outvoted and don't get any representation). You can claim you're fixing the injustice of one extreme and hide that your solution is going to the other extreme.

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
singularityshot Since: Dec, 2012
#333422: Oct 11th 2020 at 8:21:40 PM

Yes it's an absolutely shameful stunt that could prove to be illegal...

...but for $200? I don't know anything really about drug costs in the US, but I somehow get the feeling that for quite a large number of people that's going to be a drop in the ocean when it comes to the cost of their medication. Sure, every little helps and all and most people won't say no to $200 but really I do think the whole thing could rebound on Trump as prima facie evidence that he doesn't understand medical poverty and quite a few people might consider the whole thing to be insulting.

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#333424: Oct 11th 2020 at 10:23:31 PM

Projection is the Republican motto!

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#333425: Oct 11th 2020 at 10:38:41 PM

So, what? Is it an attempt to make people think their votes are counted without them actually being so?


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