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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#333376: Oct 11th 2020 at 11:56:24 AM

Well color me surprised.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#333377: Oct 11th 2020 at 12:13:34 PM

Dr. Fauci's words were used in a Republican ad without his permission, and were taken out of context to make Trump look good.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/11/politics/fauci-trump-campaign-ad-out-of-context/index.html

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#333378: Oct 11th 2020 at 12:16:28 PM

[up]Can he sue? That's what I'd do.

My musician page
astrokitty Happiness is a cup of tea from Somewhere Out There Since: May, 2014 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Happiness is a cup of tea
#333379: Oct 11th 2020 at 12:20:45 PM

A lot of posts on Twitter are telling Dr. Fauci to resign, which sounds like a terrible idea to me?

Somebody once told me the world was macaroni, I took a bite out of a tree
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#333380: Oct 11th 2020 at 12:29:59 PM

[up]I don't see why. The administration isn't really doing anything, Fauci leaving wouldn't change that.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#333381: Oct 11th 2020 at 12:31:17 PM

The first thing you should take into consideration when listening to Twitter mobs is not to listen to Twitter mobs. Losing Fauci means losing the one person most of the country trusts at the executive level.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#333382: Oct 11th 2020 at 12:33:52 PM

DeMarquis: You may not have noticed, but a rather lage number of the so called oligarchs are center-left/centrists who are increasingly repulsed by the GOP turning into the party of economic self flagellation and white nationalism, two positions which are decidedly bad for business. The last thing the Democrats can afford is to turn into a circular firing squad upon gaining power due to the (hyperbole alert) left demanding we seize the means of production for the proletariat and abolish capitalism instead of focusing on realistic goals that the entire political coalition the democrats represent can live with.

Edited by CaptainCapsase on Oct 11th 2020 at 3:35:29 PM

Andygal Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
#333383: Oct 11th 2020 at 12:34:52 PM

Fauci is one of the few voices of reason in this administration, even if they keep inferring with him trying to do his job.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#333384: Oct 11th 2020 at 12:36:28 PM

The first thing you should take into consideration when listening to Twitter mobs is not to listen to Twitter mobs. Losing Fauci means losing the one person most of the country trusts at the executive level.

Fauci is one of the few voices of reason in this administration, even if they keep inferring with him trying to do his job.

Being trustworthy or a voice of reason is worthless if you aren't being listened to.

I don't think it's important whether or not he resigns but we shouldn't act as if it actually helps anyone. It doesn't.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#333385: Oct 11th 2020 at 12:39:59 PM

[up]x3: Or. Or, we don't work with the amoral scumbags and actually try to move towards a better world instead of taking the path of least resistance.

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#333386: Oct 11th 2020 at 12:43:52 PM

It’s not about if he’s listened to by the administration, he’s trustworthy for the public, so it’s worthwhile to have him there simply so we have someone telling us facts about COVID.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#333387: Oct 11th 2020 at 12:43:58 PM

The public listens to him. If Fauci isn't at the White House then he loses the biggest megaphone to inform people about the virus.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#333388: Oct 11th 2020 at 12:46:58 PM

Yup. He may be partially muzzled, but he's still a highly experienced, skill and respected (non-partisan) public servant. The US federal government has already lost far too many of those.

Granted, I assume that, given his age, Fauci ain't too far away from retirement anyway.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#333389: Oct 11th 2020 at 12:47:48 PM

@Azure: Under current projections, the senate is going to be held by the democrats by the thinnest of margins if it even flips to begin with. Remember how the public option got torpedo'd by one democratic senator who was further to the right than the rest of the coalition? There's very likely to be cases where someone in the Democratic senate says no and the choice will be either to compromise or go home with nothing.

Edited by CaptainCapsase on Oct 11th 2020 at 3:48:23 PM

AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#333390: Oct 11th 2020 at 12:53:27 PM

Perhaps so, but the thing about a big tent is you can't just swing all the way in the other direction. You're going to need to work with the Left a little, and that's going to involve taking actions against said oligarchs.

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#333391: Oct 11th 2020 at 1:10:53 PM

If we don't take the Senate, all forms of legislative action will be a non-starter for at least two years. Mitch and Lindsey have been very clear about that. We need to keep that in mind as we evaluate Biden's options.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 11th 2020 at 1:16:26 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#333392: Oct 11th 2020 at 1:14:07 PM

[up][up] It actually doesn't except in the world where working with means capitulating to each and every demand of the left, which is the exact sort of purity test crap that needs to die. I think you really overestimate how much corporate America cares about many of the left's policies. For example, companies that aren't in healthcare (and only then it's mostly insurance companies who stand to lose a huge amount) aren't affected by Medicare For All except to the extent that you force the issue by using a particular funding scheme. Same for green energy policies, anyone who isn't in the energy sector isn't really affected one way or the other unless the issue gets forced.

Edited by CaptainCapsase on Oct 11th 2020 at 4:14:27 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#333393: Oct 11th 2020 at 1:16:26 PM

The first thing a US Senate should do under the Democrats is pass every bill they made with the House.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#333394: Oct 11th 2020 at 1:19:17 PM

There's a term I've made called "Referee Fallacy". Basically, it's when one tries too hard to ensure that the battle between good and evil is 'fair' rather than that good wins.

That is definitely a problem with democrats, who tend to fixate overmuch on the mechanism of democracy rather than the outcome. Republicans get this; hypocrisy is meaningless, rules are meaningless, what matters most are the results. They will do anything in their power to get their agenda across, and they will change the rules however they need to in order to pull it off.

Democrats, for too long, have been susceptible to being challenged on those rules. Republicans can't win a straight argument, so they accuse the left of cheating. They shame the left pre-emptively on claims that the left will probably break the rules. This makes the left self-conscious. Democrats tuck in and go, "No, I'm not a cheater, I follow the rules and play fair. Watch me fairly allow the Republicans to steal this election and watch me fairly allow the Republicans to steal that Supreme Court Justice."

We have a hard time remembering that, at the end of the day, the goal is not to provide a fair and civil debate between racists and minorities. The goal is to crush racists utterly and create a safer world for minorities. Period. Democrats need to learn to chase minority rights, voter enfranchisement, gun control, and other key policy points with the same unrelenting fervor that Republicans use to chase anti-abortion laws.

The mechanisms of democracy only matter inasmuch as they provide a fair and just nation to live in. Rules exist to serve the people; people do not exist to serve the rules.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 11th 2020 at 1:19:59 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Andygal Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
#333395: Oct 11th 2020 at 1:22:45 PM

"Meet me in the middle says the unjust man, you take a step forward, he takes a step back."

Democrats talk about compromise to appeal to centrists, and have forgotten that compromise only works if everyone is dealing in good faith, and that some things should not be compromised, and one of those things is human rights.

Edited by Andygal on Oct 11th 2020 at 1:23:24 AM

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#333396: Oct 11th 2020 at 1:23:15 PM

@Captian: Please do not strawman me. I didn't suggest any of that. The existence of an ultra-right wing psuedo-libertarian network of think tanks and lobbying projects spnsored by extremist billionaires is very well documented. I know of no such equivalent network on the left.

As for working with moderate conservatives, I just posted that we will need to appeal to the self-interest of independent voters one some set of issues to accomplish anything. That does not mean abandoning our core values, but it may mean prioritizing them.

Edited by DeMarquis on Oct 11th 2020 at 4:23:38 AM

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#333397: Oct 11th 2020 at 1:27:08 PM

Well but what is the solution here? It surely cannot be blatantly going down on the GOP's outright criminal level.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#333398: Oct 11th 2020 at 1:40:40 PM

Playing hardball doesn't mean playing dirty. It means using every available legal option to achieve the policies we want. Some the Democrats have been uneasy with doing because it upsets decades of norms. But the Republicans have already flipped over the table and are threatening to sit on it to prevent Democrats from righting it back up. We aren't going to shank the fool sitting on the table, but if he falls on his face when we yank it from under him that's not against the rules, that's his own fault.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#333399: Oct 11th 2020 at 1:48:23 PM

Um, ok? I guess? The thing is, we don't have the money, or the legal advise that the Republicans can pay for. And the way The Game works, the party that appears to be subverting the will of the majority concedes the advantage of popular support. You can reform the game anyway you want to if you can convince a majority of voters to go along with it. The truth is that the Republicans didn't just cheat—they convinced a plurality to go along with Dark Money, gerrymandering, voter suppression and all the rest of it. They even had a majority supporting the Muslim immigration ban. They won't set aside the Constitution unless they can get a majority to support that. They know how to play the game.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#333400: Oct 11th 2020 at 1:49:52 PM

[up][up][awesome] Democrats have had a problem with their response to blatant Republican lawbreaking being a finger-wagging and a scolding, hoping to shame them into behaving, but little legislative muscle to actually make sure they heed. That needs to stop. But at the same time "stop playing high" doesn't mean we should break the law back and perform our own little Night of Long Knives to purge the Republicans and anyone who looks potentially sympathetic to sew the seeds of a left-authoritarian state either.

What we need to do is stop worrying about avoiding offending conservative audiences by "going too strong" and prosecute Republican corruption and pushing corrective progressive legislation that will curb future abuses with full force.

Edited by AlleyOop on Oct 11th 2020 at 5:22:46 AM


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