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Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#333351: Oct 11th 2020 at 8:57:27 AM

But your enemies suck far more, especially nowadays.tongue

So please don't go into isolation again.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#333352: Oct 11th 2020 at 9:13:37 AM

Jimmy Carter certainly was the worst Democratic President since the Heel–Face Turn of the party.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#333353: Oct 11th 2020 at 9:20:57 AM

Ah, was he? He might have sucked, but he did try to do better, which is more than I can say for arguably most of the Presidents. *cough*Clinton*cough*

Edited by AzurePaladin on Oct 11th 2020 at 12:22:29 PM

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#333354: Oct 11th 2020 at 9:22:21 AM

The UK is telling ministers to cozy up to the Biden camp, as Boris Johnson is 'writing off Trump' in the upcoming US election

Ouch—that has to hurt.

As for US Middle East policy, yes, the US has made a lot of mistakes over there—and the worst thing is they were all avoidable. We could just as easily, no, more easily, have achieved all our national security goals without developing a rep for supporting dictators and abandoning all our friends except Israel.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#333355: Oct 11th 2020 at 9:23:02 AM

Carter was probably one of the kindest people to ever be president. But he wasn’t very well equipped for the job, and all the crises he had to deal with definitely didn’t help his reputation.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#333356: Oct 11th 2020 at 9:27:51 AM

And of any former President within living memory, he's done the most good after leaving office. By far. (With the caveat that Obama is still young, and will likely continue his activism.)

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#333357: Oct 11th 2020 at 9:28:28 AM

At the end of the day, Boris Johnson plays the buffoon to cover a canny political operator.

Trump IS the buffoon.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#333358: Oct 11th 2020 at 9:28:41 AM

I seriously wonder why the checks and balances haven't worked?

I thought according to the right there was a conspiracy against Trump?

One thing Trump has revealed about our government is that too many of our vaunted "checks and balances" run on the honor system. There aren't really rules, so much as there are norms and traditions. And there are no consequences for someone who just ignores those norms and traditions.

There is only one actual check on Presidential power: impeachment. In theory, Congress can impeach the President for any reason, at any time. If the House votes that they don't like the President's stupid fucking haircut, then the Haircut Impeachment moves to the Senate to hold a trial. If the Senate finds that they, too, don't like the President's stupid fucking haircut, then the President is fired and the Vice President replaces him.

It's that simple. In theory.

In practice, Congress can also refuse to impeach the President regardless of what he does, and then there are no other balances. Trump has a Republican Senate watching him commit actual crimes and saying, "Yeah, but he's our guy and we don't impeach our guy." So the one and only check on Trump's power? Doesn't actually exist. It's a partisan cudgel to be wielded when a party thinks they can get away with it whose success or failure depends not on the President's actions but on whether he has a friendly or opposing Congress.

In practice, there are no rules about what the President can and cannot do. Until he leaves office, he can't even be investigated for crimes openly committed because the Department of Justice has a policy against investigating a sitting President for crimes.

Other branches of government also benefit from the fact that there aren't actually rules. Mitch McConnell stole a Supreme Court nomination from Barack Obama this way. There are no rules and no consequences for what happens if Congress simply refuses to do its job. A Supreme Court nomination must be approved by a Senate nomination hearing, but the Senate is not actually required to hold nomination hearings. Mitch was able to simply ignore Obama's nomination of Merrick Garland, and there was nothing Obama could do about that.

Well, I say that, but actually Obama could have just put Garland on the Supreme Court anyway. Because, again, there aren't actually rules. Because Mitch's Senate refused to hold a nomination hearing, Obama could have legally interpreted that as Mitch waiving the Senate's right to confirm his judge. If Obama had stated that a failure to hold a confirmation hearing constitutes a waiver, then the Senate would be forced to either hold the hearing or let Obama bypass them entirely.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#333359: Oct 11th 2020 at 9:29:49 AM

Speaking of dictators, didn't Jimmy Carter support Marcos from the Philippines?

Or at least not mention him when talking about human rights?

Someone said that Carter's Lawful Good tendencies made him the worst guy in the world to deal with American imperialism because despite otherwise being a stand up guy, he felt it was wrong to not stand by US allies no matter what pieces of crap they were.

See also Iran.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Oct 11th 2020 at 9:30:03 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#333360: Oct 11th 2020 at 9:31:03 AM

Carter made a lot of enemies within the Democratic Party, who thought he was an egomaniac who ran the government too much like his own little kingdom. The fact that Ted Kennedy was able to run what was a probably the most successful insurgent primary campaign against an incumbent president in American history tells you everything you need to know about Carter’s grip on power. How much of that is true is hard to say, since most of the people who knew President Carter and not Great Humanitarian Carter are mostly dead, but a big part of his woes in office were from within the party.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#333361: Oct 11th 2020 at 9:32:08 AM

Other branches of government also benefit from the fact that there aren't actually rules. Mitch Mc Connell stole a Supreme Court nomination from Barack Obama this way. There are no rules and no consequences for what happens if Congress simply refuses to do its job. A Supreme Court nomination must be approved by a Senate nomination hearing, but the Senate is not actually required to hold nomination hearings. Mitch was able to simply ignore Obama's nomination of Merrick Garland, and there was nothing Obama could do about that.

This is exactly why "they go low we go high" is so harmful and worthless, in practice "going high" involves acting as if those norms still meaningfully exist when they very much do not. That's why it took eight years of obstructionism and the possibility of even more for Democrats to even consider abolishing the filibuster. It's the glorifying of civility as a good in of itself instead of a means to an end.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#333362: Oct 11th 2020 at 9:34:26 AM

Going high is weird when it doesn't apparently mean fighting hard to defend democracy.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
ScubaWolf from South Carolina Since: Feb, 2020
#333363: Oct 11th 2020 at 9:36:00 AM

[up][up] That is also why I support turning a lot of those norms and traditions into actual rules that they can be punished for breaking.

Edited by ScubaWolf on Oct 11th 2020 at 12:36:07 PM

"In a move surprising absolutely no one"
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#333364: Oct 11th 2020 at 9:36:25 AM

There's a term I've made called "Referee Fallacy". Basically, it's when one tries too hard to ensure that the battle between good and evil is 'fair' rather than that good wins.

Leviticus 19:34
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#333365: Oct 11th 2020 at 9:43:05 AM

Going high is weird when it doesn't apparently mean fighting hard to defend democracy.

I know right? You'd think that morally the most righetous thing would be to do whatever's necessary to stop the Republicans. But I guess not.

That is also why I support turning a lot of those norms and traditions into actual rules that they can be punished for breaking.

Indeed. That's actually a reasonable solution instead of just mindlessly pursuing civility politics.

There's a term I've made called "Referee Fallacy". Basically, it's when one tries too hard to ensure that the battle between good and evil is 'fair' rather than that good wins.

Yeah, that exactly describes it. It's a mindset more focused on a superficial sense of "fairness" then the actual consequences.

It's like an insane reversal of "the ends justifies the means", where you consider the means themselves to be the only thing that matters.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Oct 11th 2020 at 9:44:36 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#333366: Oct 11th 2020 at 9:44:05 AM

I'm pretty sure Balance Between Good and Evil when not involving literal cosmic forces and metaphysics (and sometimes when they are) is this Referee Fallacy.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#333367: Oct 11th 2020 at 9:53:49 AM

I think it's better framed Democrats have acted like Republicans are people that they're having a honest well-intentioned argument with that both sides believe is about the good of the nation.

When one side actually was just trying to destroy Democracy and get rich.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#333368: Oct 11th 2020 at 9:56:11 AM

To be fair, many consider the democratic process more importan that the people pursuing democracy because people can come and go.

Also and efect of polarization is the belief than you anre your pals ARE the biggest and more important things ever, therefore you must by any means necesary to hold power, it pretty much turn naked ambition in a moral thing because fail to do so is give the other "Power", for many republican they think they are fighting for democracy.

And let be honest, we are still "going high" when we shit biden for is somewhat groping ways or the whole "is pelosi native american?" if we didnt do that, we will pretty much lower our standars.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#333369: Oct 11th 2020 at 9:57:03 AM

re: checks and balances — you can make the argument that they are working. This election is shaping up to be a bloodbath for the Republicans. (I'm not taking anything for granted, naturally, but that's certainly the direction things are trending.) The American people have seen the rampant corruption of the Trump presidency, and seen the GOP sit on their hands over it, and both Trump and his allies are paying for it at the polls. People know how it's supposed to work and see that the GOP has abdicated their jobs in favor of naked partisanship, and they're going to vote the GOP out over it.

Elected officials are ultimately responsible to the people. Getting voted out of office is the ultimate check on political power in America.

That said, I'm not exactly declaring victory yet. First we have to actually vote them out, despite all the barriers they've put up to make that harder. Then, just as importantly, we have to use the authority we've won. Trump and his allies must be investigated for their actions in office, and must be prosecuted if crimes were committed. The temptation is to return to business as usual, to rebuild a sense of normalcy, which means treating former Presidents as respected honorable statesmen even if you disagree with their politics.

We cannot fall into that trap — to put it bluntly, Trump stole the presidency and then used the office to enrich himself in the most blatant, high-ranking public corruption living memory. If he doesn't go to prison for it, he'll have gotten away with it, and any other unscrupulous asshole in a position to try the same thing will have no reason not to give it a shot. We must establish the precedent that blatantly criminal behavior will be punished or else we'll be putting out fires started by wannabe-Trumps for a generation.

Just as importantly, a Biden presidency must secure voting rights nationwide. The GOP subversion of the voting system has undoubtedly been biggest danger to the American system of government. As I said before, voters are the ultimate check on politicians in a democracy — but if the politicians are allowed to rig the election, then that system breaks down. This isn't just a Trump-era thing — it's been going on for far longer than that — but we have to fix it now, while we have the power to do so, or we may not get another chance.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#333370: Oct 11th 2020 at 9:58:35 AM

But your enemies suck far more, especially nowadays. tongue

So please don't go into isolation again.

Funny enough, the Missing America podcast just wrapped up. It deals with the rising threats to democracy across the world such as nationalism, disinformation, authoritarianism, climate change, etc. and how Trump's disengagement from the world on issues the US could and should be facing down have allowed them to flourish since nobody has to worry about negative consequences from the US. Each episode features someone from across the world, journalists activists, protestors, refugees and their perspectives on what's going on with the big issues in their area and how America could have been doing something about it, and normally would have been, until Trump killed whatever project or program that was helping people.

It does end on a high note of the possibility of a Biden administration coming to tackle these things. A lot of the speakers who were pressing for things to be done are now part of Biden's team.

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#333371: Oct 11th 2020 at 10:01:31 AM

Voting is not considered to be part of the standard "checks and balances", which only means the three branches of the government being able to intervene if the others overstep their authority. In this case, the legislative branch is actively aiding and abetting the criminals in the executive branch, and helping steal the judicial branch for a generation.

It's been fun.
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#333372: Oct 11th 2020 at 10:30:55 AM

American is historically infamous for a populace that only supports democracy when it's in their self-interest to do so. We have a reputation for shrugging our shoulders as our neighbor's house burns down. Yet it's always worked out: we survived the War of 1812, the Civil War, the 1960's. This isn't even our first run with authoritarianism or the Imperial Presidency. We are going to survive this one too.

"Checks and Balances" are part of that, elections that are mostly free and fair (though we have a history of electoral corruption as well) are another part. But mostly it's because Americans have always understood that they are better off in the long run with the system they have, than any proposed replacement. Social norms and traditions are the final resort of democracy, and always will be.

There are no rules you could write, no laws you could pass, that would hold any water at all unless a plurality of American voters supports them. The Constitution itself only governs us because most Americans want it to.

Public opinion, in this long term sense, is The Game. Lose it and it's game over forever, the bad guys win. American democracy is now very likely to survive because US voters look like rejecting Trump. Power brokers in both parties are going to take that as a defeat for Trumpism (although exactly what that means has yet to be determined). They will try to avoid his mistakes in the future, while attempting to capitalize on the leverage they think they still have.

This is particularly true on the Right. The billionaires club isn't going to roll over and die—they will try to come back in 2024 better funded, better organized, and more popular than ever before. Whether or not they succeed will largely depend on what Biden and the Democrats do in the next four years, and how good they are at outmaneuvering Mc Connel and co. in the Senate. Biden's instincts are centrist, so only continued public pressure on the Dems is going to win permanent reforms. I put the odds on that at about 50/50.

But understand this: if a plurality of US voters were supporting Trump in this election, progressives and people of color would be screwed, probably for the rest of the century. Since progressives and people of color do not form a majority of US voters, that means democracy cannot be preserved without the active support of moderates. Most Americans really only support social justice to the extent that they think it will benefit themselves and their descendants—probably they always will. So think very carefully about what reforms you want, and make very certain that most Americans will come to believe whatever you propose will serve their own interests and those of the communities they belong to.

That's The Game. For the last 40 years the oligarchs have been winning it. We are looking at a window of opportunity now where we might be able to turn that around.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#333373: Oct 11th 2020 at 11:06:44 AM

Two bills have been passed to address the issue of missing and murdered Native Americans, Savanna's Act and the Not Invisible Act. AP News Links

Savanna's Act (H.R. 2733) is named after Savanna LaFontaine Greywind, a pregnant Lakota woman who went missing only to be found brutally murdered in August 2017. Its goal is to improve the responses to missing and murdered Native women through coordination among tribal, federal, and local law enforcement agencies. It also requires data on missing and murdered Native people to be compiled and reported.

The Not Invisible Act (H.R. 2438) aims to address the crisis of missing and murdered Native people by creating an advisory committee on crime against American Indians and Alaska Natives to make recommendations to the Department of Justice and Department of Interior.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#333374: Oct 11th 2020 at 11:51:51 AM

I expect the Senate to kill these as well because the GOP seems cartoonishly evil now.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#333375: Oct 11th 2020 at 11:54:56 AM

[up] They were bipartisan bills that have already been signed.

Edited by nova92 on Oct 11th 2020 at 11:55:14 AM


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