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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#333076: Oct 10th 2020 at 5:40:12 AM

Vox has a pretty good rundown on Biden's policies. He has a long list on his website as well, but Vox goes into the details and provides helpful analyses.

[nja]'d by Parable, but I'll leave my post up for the Vox link.

Edited by nova92 on Oct 10th 2020 at 5:41:27 AM

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#333077: Oct 10th 2020 at 5:41:02 AM

Indeed, "not being Trump" is an incredibly low bar to pass, and is not nearly enough for the challenges the US faces today.

The world needs a great US president, not an "acceptable under the circumstances" president. Sadly, the people have chosen safe mediocrity over ambition.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#333078: Oct 10th 2020 at 5:41:16 AM

It reminds me of 2016 when so many people jumped on the "Hillary is a status quo centrist" bandwagon without even looking at her actual policy statements. This included the media.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#333079: Oct 10th 2020 at 5:41:37 AM

Honestly, as much as one should not overhype the guy, there's also a real risk of going too far in the opposite direction.

Also, calling Biden a status quo candidate is misleading for one reason: His polices aren't the status quo.

You know what's the current status quo? Trumpism.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Oct 10th 2020 at 2:43:10 PM

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#333080: Oct 10th 2020 at 5:45:06 AM

I guess it's a bit misleading, Biden is status quo in the sense in that he wants to go back to status quo before Trump.

Which off course is much better than what is going on now, but still not quite progressive.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#333081: Oct 10th 2020 at 5:46:34 AM

He has a good platform, but he does not bear it out well. He didn't even mention racial divisions during his first debate, even though that seems to me to be the core issue of this election.

[up] The problem is that that status quo from before Trump is what led to Trumpism in the first place. The status quo in that regard is simply not a good place to be.

Edited by Redmess on Oct 10th 2020 at 2:47:35 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#333082: Oct 10th 2020 at 5:49:49 AM

Biden is status quo in the sense in that he wants to go back to status quo before Trump.

Except he doesn’t. His policy platform isn’t “reset things to 2015/2016”, it’s nothing of the sort, it’s the most radical and progressive Democratic platform we’ve ever had.

The status quo before Trump didn’t include paying for college for people from low-incomes families, it didn’t include a public healthcare option, it didn’t include decriminalisation of weed, it didn’t include a commitment to placing a black-women on the Supreme Court, there’s a lot that the old status-quo didn’t include that’s in Biden’s platform, look at Biden’s actual platform.

“Biden is going to take up back to how things were before Trump” is simply false, now it’s a falsehood Biden himself has egged on at times, because it’s a good core winner, but it’s still a falsehood.

Edit: Lol, speak of the devil...

Fighteer was a Warren supporter during the primary, so I don’t know what you’re Lo Ling at. The only initial Biden supporter I’ve ever spotted here was Fox who hasn’t appeared in a while.

Edited by Silasw on Oct 10th 2020 at 12:51:20 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#333083: Oct 10th 2020 at 5:50:05 AM

[up][up] Yes.

Donald Trump is not an anomaly that appeared out of nowhere. White supremacy didn't just happen in 2016, it has been here all along. We just let ourselves believe it was gone. We could externalize the problems. America can't pretend that things aren't wrong because when we do that, something worse comes around.

Should have worded it better, but Biden's policy is to go back to 2016. Basically pre Trump. And even then people were getting a bad deal.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Oct 10th 2020 at 8:52:03 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#333084: Oct 10th 2020 at 5:50:23 AM

I think it's more accurate to say that Biden is a status quo centrist who has been pressured into adopting more reformist progressive policies.


[up][up]

I was referring to the person who posted right after me, it's only funny because they were exactly who I was thinking of when I typed it. It wasn't intended with any judgement.

Edited by GoldenKaos on Oct 10th 2020 at 1:51:48 PM

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#333085: Oct 10th 2020 at 5:51:09 AM

[up] Yeah basically.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#333086: Oct 10th 2020 at 5:52:34 AM

but Biden's policy is to go back to 2016.

Except that this is false. Look at Biden’s actual platform, where in it does he say we should go back to 2016 and not progress on from it?

I think it's more accurate to say that Biden is a status quo centrist who has been pressured into adopting more reformist progressive policies.

Have you got any evidence that Biden has adopted more progressive policies not because he believes in them/believes they are now achievable but instead simply because he’s been “pressured”?

Biden is a moderate-progressive, in that his natural inclination is to progress things in small manageable steps, but that’s not the same as wanting to maintain the status-quo.

Edited by Silasw on Oct 10th 2020 at 12:56:08 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#333087: Oct 10th 2020 at 5:55:03 AM

[up][up][up] Agreed.

[up] I think there is a disconnect between the platform and the candidate. The platform certainly is very progressive and forward looking, but Biden himself has a tendency to cling to the pre-Trump era, especially his Obama years.

Edited by Redmess on Oct 10th 2020 at 2:57:47 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#333088: Oct 10th 2020 at 5:58:15 AM

Politico: Judge says Minnesota congressional election back on despite death of third-party candidate

This is Rep. Angie Craig's district, MN-2. Her Republican opponent says he'll appeal to the 8th Circuit Court, so the election could be off again soon, but for now it's going to happen.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#333089: Oct 10th 2020 at 6:00:53 AM

Yeah, I don't know who could seriously think that I'm a Biden-first person. I wanted Warren, but when I didn't get my first choice, I fell back on my second. It certainly wasn't going to be Sanders, but we've had that argument enough times.

The debate here isn't between "status quo ante" and "fix what's broken". That is a false dichotomy that illustrates a serious problem on the left in this country. The debate is about the rate of change. I am an incrementalist while others want revolutionary change now. That's the difference. When a body requires massive surgery to repair its problems, one generally doesn't do it all at once, lest the trauma prove fatal.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#333090: Oct 10th 2020 at 6:03:12 AM

I think the "Biden wants to go back to 2016" might have been true at an earlier point in terms of policy, but his policy platform has moved leftwards a lot since then.

It's also a very vague phrase which is used to refer to returning to pre-Trump politics of not having a fascist compulsive liar in the White House - with the implied criticism of not addressing the failures of liberalism that caused Trump, but whatever that's something to worry about once Biden gets in, maintaining Liberal Democracies in the face of actual Fascism needs to take priority over criticising the faults of those Liberal Democracies.


Have you got any evidence that Biden has adopted more progressive policies not because he believes in them/believes they are now achievable but instead simply because he’s been “pressured”?

He... he literally worked with the Bernie campaign to move his platform left as the primaries came to a close... idk do you want me to use "persuaded" or "influenced" instead of "pressured" or something? He was NOT the most progressive of that field of primary candidates and he's made concessions leftward since he began his campaign, idk what semantic concession you want me to make here.

Edited by GoldenKaos on Oct 10th 2020 at 2:08:41 PM

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#333091: Oct 10th 2020 at 6:05:29 AM

[up] Exactly. When a patient is bleeding to death from a gaping stab wound, doctors fix that first before worrying about their kidney failure, because the stab wound is a much more pressing problem.

Trump and his allies have caused so much damage to this nation that it's going to be the work of a full term just to repair it, never mind move ahead. We need multiple consecutive Democratic terms if progressivism is going to take hold.

Edited by Fighteer on Oct 10th 2020 at 9:06:18 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#333092: Oct 10th 2020 at 6:05:55 AM

That's the reason I am yet unsure, Biden used to be quite wishy-washy on everything until he was actually nominated. I'm not gonna say that he is only doing his current platform to fish for voters, but I am careful in celebrating too soon.

And as I've said way before she was even nominated as VP, I have some serious issues with Kamala Harris' track record as a prosecutor.

Edited by Forenperser on Oct 10th 2020 at 3:06:14 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#333093: Oct 10th 2020 at 6:07:29 AM

I think there is a disconnect between the platform and the candidate. The platform certainly is very progressive and forward looking, but Biden himself has a tendency to cling to the pre-Trump era, especially his Obama years.

Biden has a tendency to use rhetoric to invoke the rose-tinted concept of the pre-Trump era, however we shouldn’t confuse his rhetorical style with his actual goals.

Biden speaks a lot about how things were before Trump, but his platform (which is the best indicator for what policies he will push should he win) isn’t about that.

It’s a campaigning trick, he’s saying “think when things were good, I’m going to make things like that”, but the meaning isn’t that he’s going to make things how they were, the meaning is that he’s going to make things good, he’s going to make it so that things are on a path to being better.

He’s not campaigning on bringing back the policies of the Obama-era, he’s campaigning on bringing back the good-feelings and the spreading of progressive policy-ideas of the Obama era.

That’s the big thing political junkies seem to get stuck on with Biden, they want him to have a specific ideology, a specific end-goal that he’s trying to achieve. Biden isn’t like that, his goal isn’t X policy or Y policy or political concept, it’s things being better and kinder tomorrow than they are today, which is an idea that’s timeless.

And as I've said way before she was even nominated as VP, I have some serious issues with Kamala Harris' track record as a prosecutor.

There’s plenty of room to have issues with Harris, but one should also acknowledge that she is one of the most progressive members of the senate. Now that can itself be considered a damming statement about the senate, but it doesn’t change that Harris even with all her bad bits (and there are plenty) is still far more progressive than the 2016 status-quo.

Edited by Silasw on Oct 10th 2020 at 1:11:01 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#333094: Oct 10th 2020 at 6:09:57 AM

At least Harris is more willing to speak out against police brutality, which is a good step forward. I still want Biden to come down more firmly on that though, instead of his watered down law and order messaging.

[up] Good point, but I feel he should push that idealism a bit more. We still need idealists, perhaps especially in times like this. That is not the same as asking for a revolution, mind you, but there does need to be a vision here, and while that is there in the platform, Biden is not very good at actually bearing that out.

Edited by Redmess on Oct 10th 2020 at 3:13:49 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#333095: Oct 10th 2020 at 6:12:31 AM

A lot of people are very "Kamala is a cop" and bring up the fact she put trans women in men's prisons, but for all that, she's still one of the most progressive Senators in terms of record, so... work with what you have.

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#333096: Oct 10th 2020 at 6:15:17 AM

[up] She seemed willing to criticize police brutality in her last debate, so I am holding out hope that her stance is changing on that.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#333097: Oct 10th 2020 at 6:17:30 AM

It's a simple truth that when you are a prosecutor, you need to work with cops, and that means not alienating them. You're scored on your convictions. It's a sad statement about reality, and one that Harris stands to try to fix now.

You need people who know the system to help fix the system.

Edited by Fighteer on Oct 10th 2020 at 9:18:33 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#333098: Oct 10th 2020 at 6:26:04 AM

An associate of mine said Kamala Harris had to make it in law enforcement and politics as a black woman. That meant her record was always going to be one of being an enormous hardass.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Oct 10th 2020 at 6:36:16 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#333099: Oct 10th 2020 at 6:26:56 AM

That tracks honestly.

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#333100: Oct 10th 2020 at 6:30:09 AM

Well, she has the perfect opportunity to fix that system now. I think at this point Harris is Biden's strongest selling point.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times

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