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Nov 2023 Mod notice:


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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#332576: Oct 7th 2020 at 7:32:35 PM

A bit off topic right now, but John Hickenlooper raised $22.6 million for his Senate campaign in Q3. Democratic Senate candidates are reporting absolutely jaw-dropping amounts right now. I don't think I've seen any major candidate raise <$10 million.

TitanJump Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Singularity
#332577: Oct 7th 2020 at 7:33:54 PM

(I am fully expecting a divine lightning bolt to smite Mike Pence out of existence any moment now)

He is a lost cause, as I have no idea what reality he is living in, because it is for certain not ours...

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#332578: Oct 7th 2020 at 7:34:08 PM

That's good news, though Colorado is probably the Democrats' most likely Senate pick-up.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Mullon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson
#332579: Oct 7th 2020 at 7:35:17 PM

I know there are a lot of big issues happening right now but I sometimes wish there was an occasional lowball question, something that doesn't make me feel completely alien to these people on stage.

Never trust anyone who uses "degenerate" as an insult.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#332580: Oct 7th 2020 at 7:37:26 PM

That fly is America's greatest hero.

My favorite is still the bald eagle that attacked Trump.

AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#332581: Oct 7th 2020 at 7:37:27 PM

I take it Queer issues went without discussion again.

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#332582: Oct 7th 2020 at 7:37:50 PM

If I had to wager, I'd say this slightly pushes the needle further into Biden and Kamala's favor. Nothing big happened, but Harris did better. Which as far as VP debates go means no change or slight change for the better for her side.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#332583: Oct 7th 2020 at 7:37:55 PM

[up][up]Seems so, unfortunately. sad

Edited by HailMuffins on Oct 7th 2020 at 11:39:20 AM

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#332584: Oct 7th 2020 at 7:38:39 PM

538: "Sentiment towards Pence turns sharply more positive at the end. However, in a testament to the surreal nature of this election, much of that is being generated by glib conversation about the fly that briefly landed on Pence’s head."

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#332585: Oct 7th 2020 at 7:38:42 PM

ABC are reporting that pink eye (which Pence has) could be an early symptom of COVID, if Pence is symptomatic hopefully Harris managed to stay safe.

Biden’s twitter account has done a fly related tweet. [1]

Edited by Silasw on Oct 7th 2020 at 2:41:49 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Altris from the Vortex Since: Aug, 2019 Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
#332586: Oct 7th 2020 at 7:44:49 PM

I couldn't catch the debate (and anyway I don't want to preternaturally age), what happened?

I know about the fly on Pence's head, though, the memes are all over Twitter.

So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my Tumblr
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#332587: Oct 7th 2020 at 7:45:09 PM

That's pretty much it, other than the two saying exactly what you'd expect them to say. The important thing for us is that Harris didn't stumble enough to sink the Biden campaign current upward trajectory any.

Edited by AlleyOop on Oct 7th 2020 at 10:45:45 AM

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#332588: Oct 7th 2020 at 7:45:58 PM

ABC seem to be of the opinion that Harris won, but that the debate is unlikely to have any real impact, which hurts Trump as he needs to make up ground.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#332589: Oct 7th 2020 at 7:46:55 PM

If Trump was counting on Pence to save his ass...<suppresses chortles>

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#332590: Oct 7th 2020 at 7:47:23 PM

I'm hearing that Harris also refused to comment on court-packing?

If so, that alone justifies this debate's existence. If Democrats finally grow a spine and do what's necessary then maybe we'll get to fixing this country.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#332591: Oct 7th 2020 at 7:50:40 PM

Pence's refusal to affirm that he would allow for a peaceful transition of power (itself a softball, he could've even gone for a backhand like "if the Americans are really that easily suckered into voting Biden then OK, but they'd have to be really stupid to") is pretty alarming, and I hope for the Democrats to hammer him on it.

Edited by AlleyOop on Oct 7th 2020 at 10:51:52 AM

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#332592: Oct 7th 2020 at 7:51:14 PM

She did accuse Pence of packing the lower courts with unqualified right wing judges, actually.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#332593: Oct 7th 2020 at 7:53:17 PM

Which was a nice dodge on the question of packing, also possibly groundwork laying for justifying Democrat court packing.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Wryte Since: Jul, 2010
#332594: Oct 7th 2020 at 7:53:55 PM

I take it Queer issues went without discussion again.

Harris did give a shout out to Americans "of all genders" participating in the BLM protests, but that's as close as it ever came.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#332595: Oct 7th 2020 at 7:57:31 PM

This debate and last week's is like night and day. Both candidates were civil, and Pence made a point to compliment Harris on her appointment. Pence does have a bit of a tendency to stretch his time limit a bit, but I don't know if this is a particular tactic tonight or just general politicians trying to run up the clock.

Unlike Trump, Pence does a good job presenting actual Republican talking points, and Harris does a good job defending Biden's plans.

  • I'm not sure what Harris is on about with Biden not wanting to stop fracking and end fossil fuel use. Isn't that the goal of combatting climate change?
  • So does Biden support the Green Deal or not? It's not entirely clear from the debate.
  • Pence tries to paint environmentalism as a radical agenda, as was to be expected.
  • Pence also emphasizes Harris is more liberal than Sanders, something Trump could not stick on Biden last week.
  • Harris discusses the damage done by the China trade war.
  • Harris also discusses Russia's interference and Trump's failure to address their threat.

At this point, Pence's time stretching is getting rather excessive, and it seems to be deliberate to eat into Harris' speaking time.

  • After Pence's criticism of Biden's policy in a hostage situation (I'm not familiar with that topic), Harris counters with a retort about Trump's total disrespect for the military.

Pence gets his first warning about following the rules. While Pence does not interrupt Harris and remains calm, it is clear that he employs similar tactics to Trump, albeit in a less abrasive fashion.

  • Pence criticizes Biden for opposing the assassination of the Iran general Soleimani, and defends the SC nominee.
  • Harris gets a question on Roe vs Wade, but starts with proposing holding up the SC nomination until after the election, then gives a pro-choice endorsement. She also defends ACA.
  • The next question is on how Trump will replace ACA. Pence evades by bringing up court packing. He has a point here that Dems have refused to answer the question.
  • The next point is on police brutality and racism. Harris does here what Biden failed to do: directly address the issue and point out the injustice. I'm sure Biden supports the message, but it would have been better if he had confronted Trump directly with it. (Harris runs the clock here a bit too, but after Pence did it pretty much every time, you can't really blame her, and this is an important enough subject).
  • Pence shows empathy, but puts the emphasis on the justice system doing the right thing, and condemns the rioting and looting. Pence also explicitly denies the existence of systemic racism among police.
  • Harris politely but sternly tells Pence off for lecturing her about the justice system.
  • Harris then condemns Trump's refusal to condemn white supremacy and support of racist groups, which Pence of course denies.
  • The last topic is the election, with a strong defence of democracy by Harris.
  • Of course Pence claims confidence in winning, though the polls show a very different picture.
  • As a last parting shot, Pence accuses the Democrats of trying to deligitimize the Trump victory, and brings up the spying allegations against the Clinton campaign. Impeachment and the mail in ballot conspiracy are also mentioned.

The final question is from a student about political division in America. Pence defends free and open debate, and notes that the news does not always reflect the American people. Pence makes a great point about unity, something you certainly wouldn't see Trump do, and I'm glad he can at least be counted on for that. It's a whole sight better than Trump burning the country down over its divisions. Harris brings it back to Biden striving for bipartisan politics. That is a good stance in general, though US politics are well beyond that point right now.

That was a pretty good debate. Both candidates were civil and avoided personal attacks, though Pence had a habit of running the clock a little. Both dodged questions, as CNN notes, but I feel Harris made the stronger stances overall, though of course I am inclined to agree with Harris' points overall. Pence's dodges were also over much more serious and pressing questions, and much less justifiable.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#332596: Oct 7th 2020 at 8:00:28 PM

I'm not sure what Harris is on about with Biden not wanting to stop fracking and end fossil fuel use. Isn't that the goal of combatting climate change?

It's a step towards addressing climate change. But it's not the be-all and end-all, nor is it necessarily the best immediate goal until you can establish sufficient alternatives. Reducing use is a different matter.

Edited by RainehDaze on Oct 7th 2020 at 4:00:41 PM

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#332597: Oct 7th 2020 at 8:00:33 PM

The fly probably thought Pence was dead

i'm tired, my friend
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#332598: Oct 7th 2020 at 8:01:23 PM

He's so lacking in empathy that flies think he's a corpse.

Disgusted, but not surprised
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#332599: Oct 7th 2020 at 8:04:05 PM

I do think that Harris is more incisive and quick to get to the point of whatever she's arguing than Biden is.

I'm not sure what Harris is on about with Biden not wanting to stop fracking and end fossil fuel use. Isn't that the goal of combatting climate change? So does Biden support the Green Deal or not? It's not entirely clear from the debate.

Simple. They support some of the GND but not necessarily all of it.

Edited by AlleyOop on Oct 7th 2020 at 11:05:02 AM

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#332600: Oct 7th 2020 at 8:09:53 PM

"Pence made conservatism seem normal again."

That is your CNN quote to chew on for tonight.

Also, Pence was not "the warm, sunny presence you're used to". I'll leave it up to you guys to decide exactly how much mockery that sentiment deserves.

Edited by Redmess on Oct 7th 2020 at 5:17:47 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times

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