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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#332276: Oct 7th 2020 at 8:03:40 AM

I take it as a germaphobe in the Howard Hughes sense. Howard Hughes lived in filth but it was his primary terror. He just didn't understand germs.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#332277: Oct 7th 2020 at 8:16:20 AM

That FBI press briefing is scheduled to start around now isnt it?

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#332278: Oct 7th 2020 at 8:23:21 AM

At this point in the Tyson Zone, I fully expect someone to reveal William Barr strangled a baby.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
singularityshot Since: Dec, 2012
#332279: Oct 7th 2020 at 8:26:03 AM

Yeah - and it's just a discussion about the British ISIS members that have been extradited to the US to face trial. The indictments against them have been just unsealed.

I'm only listening to it on MSNBC so I don't know the backdrop, but given the tone I am placing the FBI spokespeople in front of a Team America background.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#332280: Oct 7th 2020 at 8:26:50 AM

Well it's nice to have some non administration news but now I'm waiting for some other shoe to drop that reveals its just a stunt.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Scarecrow4774 from In Wonderland Since: Mar, 2017 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#332281: Oct 7th 2020 at 8:27:56 AM

It feels weird being an independent these past four years. I feel like liberals want me to agree with everything they say even though I firmly believe that Humans Are Flawed.

I don't like Republicans, but that doesn't mean I like every Democrat or liberal talking point. I just think we should start over at this point.

“We’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad.” - Lewis Carroll
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#332282: Oct 7th 2020 at 8:29:19 AM

Start over from what? What do liberals claim that ignores that Humans Are Flawed?

Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#332283: Oct 7th 2020 at 8:31:08 AM

We would probably be a lot better off if we were able to scrap the whole system and start from scratch. You can only get so far with gradual reforms, since a lot of political problems we encounter today seem to be intrinsic to how our government has been set up. Unfortunately starting over from scratch is easier said than done

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#332284: Oct 7th 2020 at 8:33:36 AM

I feel like at this point anyone being told "Democrats are significantly better than Republicans" and instead hearing "Democrats are perfect and pure beings who can do no wrong" are either doing it on purpose or have no capacity to think in anything but extremes.

i'm tired, my friend
Scarecrow4774 from In Wonderland Since: Mar, 2017 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#332285: Oct 7th 2020 at 8:33:50 AM

[up][up][up] The whole ACAB thing for one example. Liberals and conservatives use a lot of generalizations from what I hear. They're not that specific.

The system is also so corrupt that we just need to get rid of it and start over.

Edited by Scarecrow4774 on Oct 7th 2020 at 11:34:31 AM

“We’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad.” - Lewis Carroll
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#332286: Oct 7th 2020 at 8:34:01 AM

The central problem a lot of people don't want to deal with is that a substantial portion of the people want to utterly destroy what other people would want to build. So...starting over...isn't really an option.

The flawed compromise is a compromise that works because it is one that forces a compromise.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
PointMaid Since: Jun, 2014
#332287: Oct 7th 2020 at 8:36:16 AM

We have a way to modify how the government works (the Constitution), it's called the amendment process. It's just that it's ridiculously difficult. Especially when things are so polarized. I wouldn't expect agreeing on new rules from scratch to be any easier. Harder, really.

singularityshot Since: Dec, 2012
#332288: Oct 7th 2020 at 8:37:38 AM

(On the FBI news conference)

You'll be waiting awhile. The spokespeople were full of praise for Barr so I suspect that the only reason he wasn't there is because he is quarantining.

Also full of praise for Sajid Javid and Priti Patel, UK Home Secretaries. The story appears to be that the US have been trying to extradite them from US military imprisonment in Iraq for awhile, only they needed a crucial bit of evidence from the UK. The UK courts however wouldn't allow the evidence to be released to the US authorities until it was clear that the suspects would not face the death penalty. Barr has given that assurance to the court's satisfaction and so the evidence was released and the extradition got the go ahead.

The reason why I find it interesting that the Home Secretaries got a shout out is that Patel in particular has no qualms about the death penalty so it's clear the dispute was not with the UK government but with the UK courts. And much like in the US where there are complaints from the government about "activist lawyers" who push back against US government overreach you see the same thing in the UK, with government ministers denigrating the role of the courts in the protecting civil liberties.

Edited by singularityshot on Oct 7th 2020 at 8:44:58 AM

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#332289: Oct 7th 2020 at 8:38:17 AM

Liberals and conservatives use a lot of generalizations from what I hear. They're not that specific.

You realise the irony in generalising everyone to complain about generalisation, right?

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#332290: Oct 7th 2020 at 8:38:22 AM

I remember someone saying that they'd like to divide the nation into Jesusland and Hollywood Liberalia.

I pointed out that partitioned countries...rarely worked out well.

Radicalization gets MORE extreme.

Mind you, there's the weird idea that Jesusland sections are 90% Red and ditto Liberalia Blue rather than more like 60-40.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Scarecrow4774 from In Wonderland Since: Mar, 2017 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#332291: Oct 7th 2020 at 8:41:05 AM

[up][up] Yes. But that's what I hear from people. I don't really here specifics from them.

“We’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad.” - Lewis Carroll
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#332292: Oct 7th 2020 at 8:41:29 AM

Starting over from scratch also does not guarantee that the new system will be better.

"Starting over" isn't really a thing. There's no Do-Over button on a government. The only way to "scrap" the system would be for violent insurrection and revolution to overthrow the government. Which is actually how we got the system we have now, so that's neat.

But here's the thing: a democracy collapsing like that doesn't generally lead to improvement. Burning down the government might seem, to an idealist desperate for improvement but impatient with the length of time it takes, like an ideal way to swap out the existing system for the better one we all can envision. But in practice, torching our democracy and reducing our country to territorial feudal states would not be better.

What we have sucks. But we're stuck with it unless we want to gamble on feudal warlords and might-makes-right autocracy. Contrary to American propaganda, anarchy does not push a civilization forward. It resets the progress of civilization to zero.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#332293: Oct 7th 2020 at 8:42:35 AM

A lot of people that want to see the current system collapse are far-right accelerationists that are hoping it will lead to the rise of a new White Supremacist authoritarian state - they're at least the loudest group, anyway.

As for the amendment process, I would argue that if the system as it now works makes substantial reform like that incredibly difficult, it needs a complete overhaul. Think about it - if you don't count the 27th amendment, which was actually proposed at the very start, the last *new* amendment was ratified almost 50 years ago

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#332294: Oct 7th 2020 at 8:43:10 AM

For what it’s worth, ACAB is a decidedly more leftist position than most Democrat politicians take.

In any case, I’ve always seen that as less a description of the moral character of every cop, and more a criticism of how the system built so that sort of behavior is the norm (though there are people who argue that every cop is, intentionally or not, complicit in that system, and to some extent I agree).

Oh God! Natural light!
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#332295: Oct 7th 2020 at 8:43:49 AM

(Reads discussion above)

I'm very disappointed that no one has referenced the "Only Sith Deal in Absolutes" as of yet.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#332296: Oct 7th 2020 at 8:47:42 AM

In any case, I’ve always seen that as less a description of the moral character of every cop, and more a criticism of how the system built so that sort of behavior is the norm (though there are people who argue that every cop is, intentionally or not, complicit in that system, and to some extent I agree).

I mean, that IS basically what it's about. It's very difficult to be a "good cop" in a system that gives you no incentive to be one, and every reason to be a bad one. Broadly speaking, you can't really be a good cop all that long because if you denounce corruption you will be seen as a traitor and ostracized, or you will eventually have to "get with the program" and be as bad as everyone else to be accepted.

In fact I'd say that's one of the problems that people often run into with these kinds of discussions: they're way too focused on individual people and not the overall systems that governs their actions and how things work.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Oct 7th 2020 at 12:50:49 PM

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#332297: Oct 7th 2020 at 8:48:50 AM

[up] Ah, that’s a much better explanation, yeah.

Oh God! Natural light!
RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#332298: Oct 7th 2020 at 8:49:17 AM

You do also realize that "ACAB" means the system is corrupt, right? Every cop, whether they're a good person or not, is complicit in a system that disproportionately targets and harms minorities, the mentally ill, the homeless, and the poor - and also targets any cop that seeks to change that corrupt system. That's what ACAB means. It's just that ECWTAGPONICIASTDTAHMTMITHATP is too long to remember.

Ninja'd by Draghinazzo.

Edited by RedSavant on Oct 7th 2020 at 11:49:55 AM

It's been fun.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#332299: Oct 7th 2020 at 8:51:05 AM

If you have 3 bad cops who murder, rob, and otherwise abuse their power and authority and 3,000 good cops who look the other way and do nothing about the crimes being committed by the 3 bad cops, then what you have is 3,003 bad cops.

Until cops are held to the same legal standard as everyone else, all cops are bad.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 7th 2020 at 8:52:02 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#332300: Oct 7th 2020 at 8:52:42 AM

Well, to address the one generalisation—ACAB is definitely a more provocative way of putting at it, but it comes down to the same idea that's behind defunding the police (which itself means moving money to other ways of solving problems than throwing policing at it), which is that the police system in the USA is fundamentally broken. On the legal side, it's far too easy for police to claim self defence when there's a lethal response, and qualified immunity means that no matter what they do in the process then any victims are left with no ability to do anything.

On the cultural side, policing doesn't have anywhere near as much community involvement as it should, especially in some cities where none of the police actually come from the areas they work in, which only exacerbates a with us or against us mentality, and officers are expected to present a united front even if someone does something fragrantly wrong. And if you're a whistleblower, then you're more likely to be thrown out, which means there's a distinct lack of what people would call good cops. Further compounded by unions that will do their best to prevent any repercussions no matter how obvious it is that the officers are, in fact, in the wrong.

And thirdly there's the problem that US police are severely undertrained in comparison to those in most countries, with a steady accumulation of equipment that makes many departments look indistinguishable from paramilitary groups. When the most important skill they need is de-escalation.

Leaving us with a situation where all cops are either A) problematic in and of themselves (the disturbingly gung ho lot), B) unquestioning of the system they're in, or C) silent for the sake of their own job. Corruption in a nutshell.

Semi-[nja]

Edited by RainehDaze on Oct 7th 2020 at 4:54:16 PM


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