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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Can we not refer to people as turds? They are not turds, they are people. One has a history in office, the other has been politicking around. We can measure what each has done and promised, we can see why what they promise worked, didn't work, didn't happen, did happen, etc.
EDIT: that is assuming you were referring to Obama and Romney, rather than Democrats and Republicans.
edited 16th Oct '12 11:01:11 PM by Enkufka
Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry![]()
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I meant in the slinging mud department, not the political views department, the latter is really more of an opinion thing for what is good and bad anyway.
We should just have this election by Russian Roulette. It would be a lot more fun.
edited 16th Oct '12 11:00:47 PM by Aqueos
Bet you didn't see that comingSee my edit.
And again, We can measure what each has done and promised, we can see why what they promise worked, didn't work, didn't happen, did happen, etc.
Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen FryI'm going to make a request that we stop referring to groups of people as turds. For the same reason I asked we stop referencing Santorum's google problem. It's disgusting on a base level and distracts us from intelligent discussion of the issue. Also it brings us down to a very low level. If we can't think of a way to discuss this without bringing up fecal matter all the time then we probably aren't mature enough to keep discussing this topic.
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This is true.
Also, this.
But one party is much, much more homogenous than the other.
And I'm out. I feel like I'm talking in circles at this point, and I'm just pissed off about it.
edited 16th Oct '12 11:07:15 PM by Enkufka
Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry@Ace: Gonna give you a
for that last post. I get tired of the lack of respect being flung about during the current political debates.
People; stop coming up with derogatory plays on Obama's name, and stop calling him "Mittens". Yes, we don't like them. But Obama's still President, and Mitt Romney's still a presidential contender. If we're going to insult them, let's at least denounce them properly.
If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~![]()
As one measures the value of a pokemon, you don't. One can lecture and debate on its pluses and minuses its appearance how well it gets things done, if it actually works.... is it any good.
But at the end of the day we're comparing apples to oranges and we need to pick our favorite and move on.
edited 16th Oct '12 11:19:28 PM by Aqueos
Bet you didn't see that comingThe value of a party can be determined by examining your moral system and the party's actions. It's not apples and oranges, you look at what they do and you ask what is more important. Then you measure the efficacy of their policies and how attentive they are to the facts.
Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry
Value to you or value period?
Value to you is much different. On an individual basis one can weight the value of your mother against the value of your father if you wish.
I hate to say it, but politics generally just doesn't go anywhere because in the end it's us bashing our moral compasses against one another. It's like trying to move an elephant with a bendy straw.
edited 16th Oct '12 11:26:00 PM by Aqueos
Bet you didn't see that comingvalue to you. at the end of the day, you can very easily say "this politician has been good/bad for me as an individual." No apples or oranges necessary.
"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story." Twitter
Parties are not politicians and vice versa. Individual politicians are much simpler obviously, they aren't a range of things. Still though I meant more on an interpersonal everyone basis. There's no definitive A party is better than B party, if there was we would only have one party.
edited 16th Oct '12 11:28:42 PM by Aqueos
Bet you didn't see that comingValue to the voter. That's what matters in the end, because the voter elects the politician. The voter's moral system, the voter's attentiveness to facts and statistics and the voter's ability to get proper facts and statistics affect how they evaluate and how well they evaluate the value of a party or individual.
And we can argue as to the facts and statistics, and we can argue the moral systems.
And We can compare the stated goals of both parties and chart what was happening over time, and when they have the same goals, you compare them. Both parties have stated that they want more jobs and "a better america."
Derp. Tired. I should have said this in the beginning: Both parties claim to want the same goals: to make the US safer from foreign enemies (whether real or imagined), to make the US more profitable, to make the lives of the population better, and to better serve the people. You compare what both have done for those goals. Direct comparison.
edited 16th Oct '12 11:32:30 PM by Enkufka
Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen FryAnd yet the Civil Rights Movement and the Lily Ledbetter Act did happen. (Which are as much social as political, but then I don't get how anyone can think that the social and political are so sharply divided when no, they do in fact bleed together in most areas.)
Look, it's not pointless bashing together. Things happen when you pursue things of value to you, and convince other people to work with you. It's how we got unions.
Also, this pointless equivocating is how people get so uninvolved in politics. Because the process you just described is apparently pointless to engage in because nothing ever changes. Except that that is completely false.
Things do shift and move, but when was the last time someone had a major epiphany and changed their values in a heated debate? If it involves even a TINY amount of opinion it doesn't happen. Things do change after all, but bashing people over the head with political views just doesn't work. It's more of a gradual change due to experiences and people and events and so on.
edited 16th Oct '12 11:33:09 PM by Aqueos
Bet you didn't see that comingAque: Arlen Specter, who passed away earlier this week, changed from Republican to Democrat over the Lily Ledbetter act and Republican opposition to it. People change.
Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen FryPoint is she abhors fox news, and generally watches BBC, NHK, or ZDF, and I know she watches nightly business report.. the round table bleh bleh bleh. She watches the local news and gets a bit irritated with the lean but you know whatever. Hell I don't think we even GET fox news.
> abhors fox news
> watches BBC
> watches NHK
> watches Nightly Business Report
Your mother is awesome.
(I don't know what ZDF is.)
King Zeal did over an abortion debate sometime last year or the year before. And Starship Maxima has a constantly evolving point of view over homosexuality, trans issues, gay rights, and other topics.
And frankly I do not debate others to try to change their views, as good as that might be, but to illustrate what facts and reasoning I am using to arrive at my conclusion.
Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry

@Tomu-uguu~: One turd may be shinier, but both of them are still turds.