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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#331701: Oct 5th 2020 at 3:16:53 PM

Yeah I see no benefit in going down this rabbit hole again.

Reflextion from a post-sanity world (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
#331702: Oct 5th 2020 at 3:16:54 PM

EDIT: OR I could concur with the other posters and avoid this subject, especially since it ended up on a new page anyways

Edited by Reflextion on Oct 5th 2020 at 6:17:44 AM

Someone did tell me life was going to be this way.
ElSquibbonator Since: Oct, 2014
#331703: Oct 5th 2020 at 3:16:58 PM

I don't know if this has been posted here before, but Thomas Friedman believes that if Trump doesn't win the Electoral College outright, he'll use his influence in the House and Senate to invalidate any mail-in votes for Joe Biden. Is it likely he can actually pull this off? Or is the legitimacy of mail-in ballots something that even Republicans ultimately need to respect?

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#331704: Oct 5th 2020 at 3:18:24 PM

And I see we're back to blaming the Democrats for not being able to win in a rigged system and sway people who are determined unto death to treat everything they say as bullshit and poison.

Ah yes, back to the idea they can do no wrong and none of the problems we currently face are their fault for colluding with Republicans and ceding ground continuously to their agenda.

Edit:

Forget it, its Chinatown. I won't continue this.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Oct 5th 2020 at 3:18:40 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#331705: Oct 5th 2020 at 3:18:33 PM

[up][up]That's not a federal power.

Now, state governments might try something and flip a blue state or two red, which might lead to a Florida 2000 situation where the Supreme Court steals the election for the Republicans when the Democrats litigate illegal state action.

Edited by Ramidel on Oct 5th 2020 at 2:20:22 AM

nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#331706: Oct 5th 2020 at 3:19:09 PM

[up][up][up] How does Friedman think Trump will invalidate mail-in-ballots? Like, what's the process Trump is going to use?


Edit: Reason I'm asking is because there's no value in engaging in handwavy "Trump will somehow pull this off." arguments. Specific mechanisms can be discussed to assess their validity/possibility.

Edited by nova92 on Oct 5th 2020 at 3:23:28 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#331707: Oct 5th 2020 at 3:19:16 PM

Trump will gladly break the law to destroy democracy. It doesn't matter if it's legal, it matters if no one stops him.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#331708: Oct 5th 2020 at 3:20:00 PM

I'm not sure how he would pull something like that off. Sure I can see it being pulled off on a state-by-state basis, but all at once? By that point all the ballots would have already been counted - I am not sure if they actually keep a detailed record of which ballots were mailed in or not. Plus getting both the Senate AND the House to invalidate them would be impossible

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#331709: Oct 5th 2020 at 3:20:32 PM

Because so many of them are evil and support evil things.

It rains on many of the days where I live, that doesn’t mean I get to declare rain a permanent feature of the weather and ignore any evidence that it’s sunny out.

[up]X6 No Trump can’t invalidate the ballots, Mitch has already stated that he’s not going to support a coup, without Mitch’s support Trump can’t do shit.

Maybe in a few Republican controlled states like Georgia Trump could pull it off, but Republicans don’t control enough states to hand Trump the election.

Edited by Silasw on Oct 5th 2020 at 10:20:51 AM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#331710: Oct 5th 2020 at 3:22:28 PM

Because so many of them are evil and support evil things.

Come on, can we not play apologist for this?

The view that all politicians are bad helps bad politicians, it gives them cover by allowing bad behavior to be seen as normal and unexceptional.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
ElSquibbonator Since: Oct, 2014
#331711: Oct 5th 2020 at 3:23:36 PM

Quoth Friedman:

"The president has told us in innumerable ways that either he will be reelected or he will delegitimize the vote by claiming that all mail-in ballots — a time-honored tradition that has ushered Republicans and Democrats into office and has been used by Trump himself — are invalid.

Trump’s motives could not be more transparent. If he does not win the Electoral College, he’ll muddy the results so that the outcome can be decided only by the Supreme Court or the House of Representatives (where each state delegation gets one vote). Trump has advantages in both right now, which he has boasted about for the past week."

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#331712: Oct 5th 2020 at 3:25:31 PM

I think we sometimes ascribe more power to Trump than he actually has.

i'm tired, my friend
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#331713: Oct 5th 2020 at 3:26:23 PM

It will only be up to the Supreme Court if the election is very close (such as in 2000), if the election isn't, and all signs suggest it won't, then there is no reason to believe that is an effective method to subvert the results.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#331714: Oct 5th 2020 at 3:27:25 PM

“Muddy the results” is not an actual process or plan, it’s a vague turn of phrase being used to justify fear-mongering that lacks a logical thought process.

Yes the results are going to end up in front of the Supreme Court, who will decline to take part in an obvious coup, because they care about their personal security and can guess how DC would react to them staging a coup.

Edited by Silasw on Oct 5th 2020 at 10:28:32 AM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#331715: Oct 5th 2020 at 3:27:54 PM

I am not sure I really understand the point here. Yes, things are fucked if Trump tries to pull something like that off. The odds of him succeeding are another matter.

The best way to counter shit like that is still to go out and vote. All this doomsaying about how things are already fucked is essentially a form of deterrence. If people think their vote will not make a difference in the outcome, they are less likely to vote, causing a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy.

nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#331716: Oct 5th 2020 at 3:28:28 PM

So there's no actual way for Trump to invalidate mail-in-ballots given. He doesn't control elections in the tipping point/deciding states. As Silas has noted multiple times, its part of why getting Democratic governors in 2018 was so important.


"Muddy the results" is not an actual process or plan, it’s a vague turn of phrase being used to justify fear-mongering that lacks a logic thought process.

[awesome] Yeah, this.

Edited by nova92 on Oct 5th 2020 at 3:29:32 AM

SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#331717: Oct 5th 2020 at 3:29:07 PM

It’s almost time for Trump to be released. Will he leave? Will he stay? Or will he leave...for good?

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#331718: Oct 5th 2020 at 3:29:49 PM

> I think we sometimes ascribe more power to Trump than he actually has.

To be fair,as President he does have supreme authority,it's not hard to think he enjoys UNLIMITED POWER,it's just the feeling of being helpless and watching him bad things without anyone to stop,besides congress.

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#331719: Oct 5th 2020 at 3:30:00 PM

There's nothing to be gained from speculating about whether or not Trump will try and rig the election, or about whether or not he will succeed. We'll burn that bridge when we get to it. Right now, the priority is to get out as many votes as possible.

If you tell people that Trump's just going to rig the election anyway, you may not realize you're doing it, but you are telling them not to waste their time voting. Keep that narrative up and Trump won't need to rig the election.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#331720: Oct 5th 2020 at 3:30:22 PM

@silasw It’s not like the Supreme Court were run out of town on a rail in 2000.

Edited by Galadriel on Oct 5th 2020 at 6:30:48 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#331721: Oct 5th 2020 at 3:32:11 PM

The view that all politicians are bad helps bad politicians, it gives them cover by allowing bad behavior to be seen as normal and unexceptional.

No, I'm not saying that all politicians are bad. I'm saying that DEMOCRATS are bad but not WORSE than the Republicans. They have earned a reputation for collaborating with and excusing Republican crimes versus opposing them as they should.

And if you disagree, the War on Terror and War on Drugs.

There's nothing to be gained from speculating about whether or not Trump will try and rig the election, or about whether or not he will succeed.

I'm confused. What do you mean speculating? He's doing it now and has done plenty to do so.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Oct 5th 2020 at 3:33:09 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#331722: Oct 5th 2020 at 3:33:11 PM

Didn't we just agree not to do this?

i'm tired, my friend
MichaelKatsuro Since: Apr, 2011
#331723: Oct 5th 2020 at 3:33:34 PM

I'm happy to agree not to do this, for one.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#331724: Oct 5th 2020 at 3:33:46 PM

For Trump to specifically invalidate mail-in-ballots he’d needs control over the state government, and a state government willing to go along with that plan. He might have that in Georgia and maybe even Florida, but he doesn’t have it in the mid-west or North Carolina, probably not even Arizona (even though it has a Republican trifecta).

To invalidate an entire state’s set of electoral votes he needs the support of the senate, and Mitch has publicly shot down the plan.

The Supreme Court will get involves no matter what because Trump is will appeal all the way to them, but they’ll only rule Trump’s way in another Florida 2000 situation, which requires things to be in recount territory.

Look, I’d bet money that Biden might well win Georgia but have Kemp do something illegal and give the state to Trump anyway, but Georgia isn’t going to be the tipping-point state.

It’s not like the Supreme Court were run out of town on a rail in 2000.

They didn’t stage an open coup in 2000. Florida was in recount territory and Bush’s brother had already fiddled with the results for them.

Yeah if it comes down to a recount in Georgia they’ll rule in Trump’s favour. But that’s different from a clear win in Pennsylvania.

Edited by Silasw on Oct 5th 2020 at 10:41:09 AM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#331725: Oct 5th 2020 at 3:33:50 PM

[awesome]Charles

The institutionalization and validation of all of Bush’s abuses of power in the name of “security” is one of the biggest beefs I have with the Obama Administration.

Edited by Galadriel on Oct 5th 2020 at 6:35:29 AM


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