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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
I think Bin Laden's assassination was a mistake to some extent, in that it prevented him being brought to justice. I felt that he should have been captured, tried in international court for terrorism, and jailed. That would have been, at least, temporal justice.
Assassination is not justice. We decided that in the West over 500 years ago when we did away with blood feuds and instituted laws and judges.
Also, I feel there is an uncomfortable racist/xenophobic undertone to such assassinations. Note how these are always carried out against foreigners, on foreign soil. Would you accept such assassinations on US soil? I highly doubt it. Then why accept it in a foreign country?
Hope shines brightest in the darkest timesYou can have catharsis, because that is an involuntary feeling. You can't really decide to feel catharsis. But you can decide against wishing death. One is an involuntary emotion that you have a right to feel and acknowledge, the other is a conscious decision. We can't control or choose our emotions, but we can at least strive to control our thoughts.
Absolutely not.
If you harm me I am going to want to harm you, that is the fundamental reaction that protects us from abuse. That we don't meekly accept it and just let them do what they want. If we embraced this notion that it's wrong to wish harm upon a person who is desperately trying to harm all of us then we would be ripe for abuse.
This is quite literally antithetical to any concept of justice or safety or self-protection.
It's viscerally unpleasant.
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang@Fighteer: You don't actually, and the perception that seeing someone on TV is a substitute for actually knowing them is also kind of dangerous, since the flipside of that mentality (forming a bond with the IDEA of a person) is how cults of celebrity and personality arise. I don't disagree with the idea that Trump is an awful human being, in public and almost certainly in private, all indications as you say point to that, but my position isn't predicated on him having privates doubts or moments of humility or humanity, which seem unlikely given every indication points to Trump as a malignant narcicisst.
Fuck, I don't even disagree with the statement that it could be advantageous if Trump died, from COVID-19, and if he actually succeeded in his dictatorial ambitions I could see myself extending that to him dying to an assassin's bullet.
My point is about the need to see humanity in one's enemies, ie Trump and the 20%-40% of the country which supports him rather fervently. Certainly the people this bloc's policies and actions have harmed are more deserving of sympathy, but for the people having this conversation that's more or less a given, I think we unanimously agree that Trump is an awful president, and sympathize with the immigrant families stuffed into detention centers or the unarmed black men shot by police officers.
Ugh, that's a shame. Trump actually dying to this is going to cause a lot of chaos. Since the current situation seemed to be working out for the Democrats as far as the coming election is concerned, I'm not happy about this development at all.
...Well, okay, maybe only slightly. Involuntary catharsis and all that. But mostly kinda worried as to what kind of ass-backwards way this causes the Democrats to lose the election.
Edited by Kayeka on Oct 3rd 2020 at 9:58:45 PM
I'm going to be frank, the idea that Trump dying could cause the Democrats to lose the election is thoroughly disconnected from reality.
I'm not saying this to be mean or insulting, and I'm truly sorry if it comes out like that, but that is not a rational fear. It just isn't.
Trump is doing absolutely horrible in polling, dying would be even worse for his campaign.
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang@Redmess: Intellectually you're probably right, but dragging bin Laden into a war crimes tribunal would just have been another circus with no more real weight than Saddam Hussein's execution. It would have been a sad, tawdry show for political benefit.
No, what I wanted to see (and did not get) was George W. Bush and Dick Cheney, among others, surrendered to international justice. They killed more people than al Qaeda, and for less valid reasons.
@Capsase: That "turn the other cheek" mentality only works if those other people are not actively attempting to harm you. The right-wing in this country hates me. I don't hate them, but their hatred will destroy the nation if allowed to proceed unchecked. When the rabid animal is closing in on you, you stop it first and feel sorry for it later.
Heck, I'm lucky. I am cis/het/white/male, upper middle class with a decent job and health insurance. I'm not in the immediate line of fire. But I am capable of extending my "tribe" to those less fortunate.
Edited by Fighteer on Oct 3rd 2020 at 4:01:53 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"I think it is better to try and stop the other person harming you than trying to harm them back. Also, passively wishing harm on someone is not exactly going to stop them.
I have a pre-existing condition, Trump tried to destroy the ACA.
I'm not going to sit back and be lectured at how I shouldn't feel hostile to a man who tried to hurt me and others.
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Oct 3rd 2020 at 1:01:27 AM
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangI'm against all this death-wishing for the main reason that it's part of a trend I see in politics: People being more concerned with harming people they dislike than with helping the people they like.
I've seen much more "Hope Trump dies!" than "Hope the innocent people who've got corona get better!" It's like they're not even aware of why they started disliking Trump in the first place.
To add my two cents about it, while I abhor grave-dancing on principle, asking people who've been screwed by the Trump regime for the last four years to show sympathy is too much to ask, honestly.
It's the difference between celebrating and not mourning.
We learn from history that we do not learn from historyThis is quite literally antithetical to any concept of justice or safety or self-protection.
It's viscerally unpleasant.
I'm sorry you feel that way, but what you describe is self-demonstrating as to exactly why it's such an unhealthy and toxic mindset.
This is the kind of logic that leads to vendettas and other Revenge Tropes and all the collateral suffering that results from them. It's also the mindset a lot of real-life victims of abuse who go onto become brutal abusers themselves speak of having, and well, that speaks for itself why it's so unhealthy. I don't need to into even more detail than I've already done in the past on how this is the mindset that "social revenge warriors" and other online bullies operate.
On this site in particular it's the basis of the Never Be Hurt Again trope (which I should point out is typically a Villain trope).
Edited by AlleyOop on Oct 3rd 2020 at 4:06:08 AM
@Fighteer: This isn't turn the other cheek. I literally just stated I'd be willing to support someone assassinating's Trump under certain sets of circumstances. Dehumanization and harming others tend to go hand in hand, but it's possible to inflict harm on others without dehumanizing them, it just doesn't feel good because humans have an inherent, instinctual aversion to harming other humans.
Edited by CaptainCapsase on Oct 3rd 2020 at 4:03:45 AM
I'm against all this death-wishing for the main reason that it's part of a trend I see in politics: People being more concerned with harming people they dislike than with helping the people they like.
No, Republicans are more about harming people they dislike instead of helping they like.
Democrats, as Biden's current platform shows, are all about helping people. Including people they dislike.
As always #bothsides is nonsense.
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
@ Fourth Spartan: You are absolutely allowed to feel hostile to him, and I understand why. What I'm trying to say is that you should not let that hostility eat away at you, and you should channel it into constructive thinking and action.
I'm sorry you feel that way, but what you describe is self-demonstrating as to exactly why it's so unhealthy.
Speak for yourself[1], there is nothing unhealthy about feeling hostility to a man who has harmed vast number of people.
[1]= And while you're at it, cut it out with that "I'm sorry to hear that" bullshit. It's patronizing as hell.
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Oct 3rd 2020 at 1:07:02 AM
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangI'm not saying this to be mean or insulting, and I'm truly sorry if it comes out like that, but that is not a rational fear. It just isn't.
Trump is doing absolutely horrible in polling, dying would be even worse for his campaign.
Oh, I know, but if I were an entirely reasonable person, half a dozen shrinks would be out of a job.
But seriously, though, I suspect it would cause a lot of Democratic voters to lose motivation because "the witch is dead", while enervating the Republican base who will be all up in arms over the assassination of Dear Leader.
I'm not saying that Trump's death could cause the Dems to lose, in case that was not clear. I'm just not sure that Pence would lose more than Trump, if that is clearer.
I took a look, and Pence seems to have similar approval ratings to Trump, if that says anything.
Edited by Redmess on Oct 3rd 2020 at 10:11:04 AM
Hope shines brightest in the darkest times

Edit: Honestly I could leave this as a page topper and it’d be fine thease days, but for context I’m responding to
Edited by Silasw on Oct 3rd 2020 at 7:55:20 PM
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran