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In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#331276: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:23:23 PM

I have heard it argued that what those three did amounted to a coup.

The damned queen and the relentless knight.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#331277: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:25:32 PM

@RainehDaze: I think in general, we need to be careful even when it comes to things that are adjacent to actively wishing or taking pleasure in harming people. I understand not caring if Trump dies. He's certainly far less deserving of sympathy than the people who were harmed by his administration's policies WRT COVID-19.


I try to place value on every life, including people whose behavior I consider abhorrent. That doesn't mean that I don't place value on the lives of the people they've harmed, and it doesn't even mean I would be unwilling to take action that would harm or even kill someone if I really and truly found myself in a situation where it was necessary, but I'd like to think it wouldn't be easy, because it never should be easy to discard our innate sense empathy for other human beings.


The frightening part, and the reason I emphasize the need for caution is that it's actually really, really easy to discard empathy for people who don't have to personally interact with.

Edited by CaptainCapsase on Oct 3rd 2020 at 3:30:54 PM

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#331278: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:28:15 PM

[up][up]I definitely see the chance of the GOP trying the same

"You can reply to this Message!"
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#331279: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:29:07 PM

Like I've said, there is no denying the harm Trump and his cronies have caused to this country. I will not wish for them to die, but I extend no sympathy, just the same #thoughtsandprayers they send every time someone dies of COVID, or of a shooting.

Edit: Capsase, I "interact" with Trump every day. He's on TV, on the Internet, in our minds and hearts. The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. It's going to take multiple Presidential terms to undo all the damage he's caused.

All indications are that he's just as awful in person as he is in public. He's brought this on himself. If he dies, I will not mourn him. Fortunately, I'm not a politician and I don't have to lie about my feelings.

Edited by Fighteer on Oct 3rd 2020 at 3:34:38 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#331280: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:32:18 PM

My wish is for them to no longer be able to harm others and I will make a moment of pleasure if they are made unable to harm others. Even if I am also taking a moment of sadness for how it is that they were rendered unable to cause further harm.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#331281: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:35:43 PM

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long.

That's such a poetic line for it. If I cite it, can I use that for my forum sig?

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#331282: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:36:14 PM

That I can agree with, Fighteer.

But I feel that if you want to take a moral stance on not wanting to wish ill or death on anyone (as I and others do), you cannot make exceptions based on politics or likeability.

On a more psychological level, I also consider it unhealthy in general to wish death on everyone you dislike. I feel this is a large part of what happens with alt right extremists among others: they have so much internal and sometimes external hate for people they disagree with, or who they feel have slighted them, it eats them up inside, and it makes them an easy prey for cults like Qanon, who seek to channel that anger and hate to their own ends.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#331283: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:37:08 PM

Just an opinion rather than news, but am I the only who thinks it's kind of ghoulish that so many liberals are laughing at Trump and the other Republicans who have COVID and/or are actively wishing death on them?

No, absolutely not.

Trump in his negligence and malice has let 200,000 of his own people die.

And he has constantly attacked the well being of a far larger number of people since 2016.

There is nothing ghoulish about recognizing that he is a waste of flesh who has no value and has caused vast harm to all of us. Rejoicing at harm coming to him is simply a form of healthy psychological reaction.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:38:00 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
ScubaWolf from South Carolina Since: Feb, 2020
#331284: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:40:33 PM

To be honest, the thought that many of those who have been making this pandemic worse dying to it is...it brings me peace of mind. I take peace in the thought of them dying simply because how much damage, how much stress, how much anxiety, how much hell have they put upon the American people on a daily basis? Them dying would quite literally help America recover from its darkest times as many people could finally get a good night's sleep without worrying about how this administration was screwing them over.

"In a move surprising absolutely no one"
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#331285: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:42:24 PM

~Azure Paladin:

That's such a poetic line for it. If I cite it, can I use that for my forum sig?

Go for it.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#331286: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:42:40 PM

I'm with most other people in that I don't wish death upon anyone or necessarily pleasure in people dying, but I can withhold sympathy for them if they're bad enough, and extend my sympathy to those they hurt through their actions.

I did not rejoice when Osama Bin Laden died, and I was certainly not happy about whatever other political breaches the US army may have committed in order to get him. But neither did I feel any sorrow at his death due to the many thousands of innocent poeple he cruelly killed around the world.

Relief at one's inability to cause further harm is very different from celebrating human suffering, which is inhumane and motivates people to create further human suffering. The emotion should be one based on justice rather than sadism.

Rejoicing at harm coming to him is simply a form of healthy psychological reaction.

Not really. The people I know who are like that are Bitches in Sheeps' Clothing. People who take pleasure in the suffering of those who wronged them usually go on to become big bullies themselves, whether it's because they have a Lack of Empathy for people other than themselves, or because it's a kind of feeling that's intoxicating and leads them to seek out more of it in ways that are very unhealthy.

Edited by AlleyOop on Oct 3rd 2020 at 3:55:31 PM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#331287: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:43:38 PM

Indeed.

I have a pre-existing condition, Trump attacked the ACA. He has quite literally attacked my well being.

This idea that we should behave in a compassionate and civil manner to a man who wants to cause horrible harm to us is deeply offensive. I'm not going to call for his death, because it's rightfully against the rules, but I will always defend those who are.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#331288: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:44:03 PM

Personally, I take no particular pleasure in Trump suffering. Having said that, I do think it's a good sign because it means that Trump and his staff won't have as much energy to devote to winning the election.

Leviticus 19:34
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#331289: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:44:09 PM

@Redmess: Again, you can have your own opinions. I know full well that hatred and revenge don't accomplish anything. However, there is value in catharsis, and seeing Trump laid low by the very thing he denied aid to the American people for is poetic justice at the very least.

@AlleyOop: The tragedy of Osama bin Laden's death is that U.S. officials committed war crimes as well and faced no justice whatsoever.

Edited by Fighteer on Oct 3rd 2020 at 3:45:08 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#331290: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:44:46 PM

Maybe, maybe not, but I think it would be better for all of us if we channel that hatred and schadenfreude into something positive. It is all well and good tohate someone, sometimes it can't be helped, but you shouldn't take it lightly all the same. It is better to focus on how to solve the source of that hatred than to dwell on that hatred itself.

In the case of Trump, constructive thought and action is clear enough: support people and organizations who stand for what you believe in and fight against those hateful ideas Trump stands for, and vote for politicians who do the same.

And after I read that summary posted earlier here about Biden's policy (which ought to be a sticky, really), I feel convinced that Biden is a good target for such constructive action.

So if you hate Trump, focus on voting for Biden.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
nightwyrm_zero Since: Apr, 2010
#331291: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:45:39 PM

Did ppl celebrated after OBL's death? OBL was responsible for less deaths than Trump.

Edited by nightwyrm_zero on Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:46:27 PM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#331292: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:45:56 PM

Redmess: I am voting for Biden. My ballot is coming in the mail, and all I can do is wait for it. In the meantime, I'm going to engage in this conversation.

Edit: For a long time during this, I felt that justice would never come for Trump and his cronies: that they would escape all meaningful consequences and walk away whistling from the smoking debris of this country. I feel hope now for the first time in quite a while that things may not turn out that way after all.

Edited by Fighteer on Oct 3rd 2020 at 3:47:18 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#331293: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:46:48 PM

[up][up] People who were negatively affected by 9/11 did.

[up][up][up][up] Right, and that's another reason why I didn't feel happy about Bin Laden's death. But also I would not go so far as to mourn the man as a poor innocent victim of US imperialism as some attention-seeking loudmouths did. He was an Asshole Victim.

Edited by AlleyOop on Oct 3rd 2020 at 3:50:08 PM

nightwyrm_zero Since: Apr, 2010
#331294: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:48:57 PM

[up]Then I see no reason those who were negatively impacted by Trump's policies to not celebrate his death.

AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#331295: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:49:10 PM

~Fighteer Thank you!

>Current Topic: I'm with Alley, mostly. Arguably having compassion is more healthy than rejoicing, in some cases. However, in this particular case, its like seeing Mussolini or his ilk get ill. Why feel bad for him, when he hurt so many other people without mercy.

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#331296: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:49:57 PM

Maybe we should cut this topic short? Feels like we're going in circles for a while, now.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#331297: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:50:20 PM

You can have catharsis, because that is an involuntary feeling. You can't really decide to feel catharsis. But you can decide against wishing death. One is an involuntary emotion that you have a right to feel and acknowledge, the other is a conscious decision. We can't control or choose our emotions, but we can at least strive to control our thoughts.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#331298: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:50:55 PM

[up][up][up][up] My point was I don't agree with the people celebrating OBL's death either, for the reasons I and Fighteer gave above, but that was different from my absence of sadness at it.

Feelings of relief, and absence of sadness, should not be confused for the active presence of presence of joy, and doing so can be dangerous and empower bad actors.

[up] [awesome] I agree with you on that.

Edited by AlleyOop on Oct 3rd 2020 at 3:54:25 PM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#331300: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:51:41 PM

@Redmess: Thanks, man. I really wasn't aware of that before you said it.

Anyway, I am not religious and do not believe in literal Heaven and Hell, but if Trump should succumb to this, he's going to get to find out about the latter.

[up] Some of the replies to that photoshopped Trump's face over a Weekend at Bernie's poster. I admit to laughing.

Edited by Fighteer on Oct 3rd 2020 at 3:54:44 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

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