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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#331251: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:04:04 PM

So I'm checking the text of the 25th amendmend. And here's the thing which a very cynic part of my brain feels the need to point out:

There's no automatic process if the President is incapitated.

There is if he's I. Impeached II. Resigns and III. Dead.

Otherwise its up to Cabinet+VP to remove him if he's unable to do his duties.

So there's literally, and I mean literally, no legal recourse for Trump being put on life support even if he's effectively dead and Cabinet simply refuses to declare him unfit to perform his duties.

What happens in the event a President becomes incapacitated/incapable is that the Cabinet can make the Vice President an "Acting President". It's actually only been used 3 times, however, Once by Bush Sr. and twice by Dick Cheney (yes, twice we've almost had a President Cheney because Bush Jr. had to get Colonoscopies). And it's only because of the 25th Amendment that it's possible at all.

Of course, Trump isn't going to let Pence be Acting so long as he's President. It reminds me of how, even though Woodrow Wilson had a debilitating Stroke and spent the last 17 months of his term completely crippled, Thomas Marshall wasn't given the position of Acting President.

EDIT: Reading it further; yes, basically unless the Cabinet agrees to it, a Comatose, Brain Dead, Near-Death Trump would remain President.

Edited by DingoWalley1 on Oct 3rd 2020 at 3:05:46 PM

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#331252: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:05:53 PM

[up] So how did they run things during those 17 months?

Wasn't impeachment partially created to resolve that situation though?

Edited by Redmess on Oct 3rd 2020 at 9:06:39 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#331253: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:06:14 PM

Remember that we are witnessing history in the making. Which sounds cool until you realize that you are left to deal with the consequences.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#331254: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:07:07 PM

Interesting times indeed.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#331255: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:07:31 PM

There's a reason that's a curse in Chinese.

Edited by HailMuffins on Oct 3rd 2020 at 4:07:51 PM

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#331256: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:08:07 PM

It's actually not, that's apocryphal, and possibly due to a British mistranslation of an actual Chinese expression.

Edited by CaptainCapsase on Oct 3rd 2020 at 3:08:56 PM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#331257: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:09:04 PM

But yes, I am very scared of Trump and the GOP stealing the elections and putting in a Supreme Court Justice to destroy democracy.

So I have mixed feelings about it.

Because I feel like it may actually be preventing a great evil.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#331258: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:09:48 PM

Well, it's an apt saying in any case, and I like it.

[up] Remember, if Trump dies, Pence will take his place as candidate, and we will be largely in the same position, if not the election, then certainly the Court.

Edited by Redmess on Oct 3rd 2020 at 9:10:56 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#331259: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:10:43 PM

@Capcase: Really? TIL.

Well, it's fitting either way.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#331260: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:11:00 PM

[up][up][up] It is sometimes beneficial for certain people to die. That doesn't make it something we should celebrate, and frankly people tend to overestimate the role of the highly visible demagogue rather than the sick society he presides over. one of those underlying problems are going away once Trump is out of office one way or another.

Edited by CaptainCapsase on Oct 3rd 2020 at 3:13:03 PM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#331261: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:11:33 PM

As I've said before, I've spent the last four years watching the Republican Party, led by Trump:

  • tear apart our country's institutions
  • flout the law with impunity
  • encourage white nationalism
  • promote and encourage racism
  • kidnap and mutilate children who cross the border
  • conspire with foreign enemies to undermine our elections
  • enact boneheaded economic policy for the benefit of their rich donors
  • ignore Russia placing bounties on U.S. troops
  • attempt to sabotage our healthcare system
  • encourage hatred of LGBT+ people and attempt to strip legal protections from them
  • harm our educational system
  • aid and abet polluting industries and destroy climate change mitigation efforts
  • withdraw the U.S. from treaties and alliances
  • attack the national media, threaten reporters, and lie shamelessly
  • ignore a global pandemic, conceal and alter medical advice, and encourage people to disregard safety rules
  • disenfranchise voters and sabotage elections

I could go on. There is not enough room in Hell for the torment that awaits these people. I'm sorry if it's rude to say these things. Oh wait, I'm not. Fuck them and everyone who supports them.

Edited by Fighteer on Oct 3rd 2020 at 3:14:31 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Wispy Since: Feb, 2017
#331262: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:11:42 PM

[up][up]That last part I can agree with. Even if Trump passed he is still a symptom of the problems we are facing and not the entirety of it.

Edited by Wispy on Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:12:26 PM

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#331263: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:12:40 PM

At this point, it is not at all clear that Pence would lose the election. Republican and Trump voters could well have a rally around the flag moment around Pence, for example.

[up] That too. The problems run far deeper than Trump.

Edited by Redmess on Oct 3rd 2020 at 9:14:14 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#331264: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:12:57 PM

BTW there actually is a Chinese saying that has a similar meaning: "Better to be a dog in times of tranquility than a human in times of chaos."

Same thing, extra steps, really.

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#331265: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:13:39 PM

There seems to be a weird hastiness to describe disinterest or acknowledging the dramatic irony, or even noting that it might be political beneficial, as celebrating and wishing harm.

Not sending someone well wishes doesn't immediately make it the opposite.

Bur from Flyover Country (Living Relic) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#331266: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:13:45 PM

I do have a bottle of wine chilling if Hawley tests positive. I despise Trump, but since Hawley's my Senator my hatred of him is more personal. Sorry, not sorry. He's a terrible man.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#331267: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:14:25 PM

@Hail: Not really? The aspect of "may you live in interesting times" as a backhanded compliment isn't retained in that proverb.

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#331268: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:15:01 PM

I don't wish death in anyone. That said, Trump already knew he'd been exposed to Hope Hicks after she tested positive and still went to a fundraiser anyway. His entourage refused to wear masks at the debate even though it was the rules, even though medical personnel offered them free ones. Trump and his goons did everything in their power to spread the virus short of coughing down people's throats. Because they wanted to be selfish. Because they wanted to mock safety measures. Because they did not care if ordinary people died because of them.

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#331269: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:15:03 PM

So how did they run things during those 17 months?

Wasn't impeachment partially created to resolve that situation though?

Wilson could still approve and disapprove legislation, but he couldn't actively campaign for anything (including his attempts at getting the US to join the League of Nations), nor attend any meetings due to his condition. His Cabinet, and the public at large, didn't learn about his severe stroke until halfway through 1920, and Congress and the Vice President refused to even try to remove him from office.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#331270: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:15:13 PM

[up][up][up][up][up] That is not what I intend to say, just to be clear. You can most certainly withhold sympathy.

Edited by Redmess on Oct 3rd 2020 at 9:15:37 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#331271: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:15:33 PM

More likely they try to steal the election using conservative electors and taking it to the Supreme Court. They could do that with Pence as easily as they could with Trump.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#331272: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:17:47 PM

[up] Stealing the election would probably be off the table, but I am unsure if it would change actual votes much.

Or if you mean whether Pence would try such a move, I don't know. Does anyone want to hazard a guess?

Edited by Redmess on Oct 3rd 2020 at 9:18:37 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#331273: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:18:32 PM

I don't personally wish death on anyone, but considering who we're talking about and the things they've done or let happen, I can't bring myself to really judge anyone who does. Because in the end, actively harming people is worse than just saying bad words.

And, yeah, not wishing for his death is not to say I'd actually be upset if he died.

megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#331274: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:19:39 PM

So how did they run things during those 17 months?

Wasn't impeachment partially created to resolve that situation though?

Impeachment is meant for active malfeasance.

None of his cabinet was willing to certify that Wilson was incapable. His personal secretary Joseph Patrick Tumulty, his doctor Cary Grayson, and his wife Edith Wilson determined what things to present to him during that time, and the severity of his illness was kept hidden for months.

The damned queen and the relentless knight.
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#331275: Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:21:42 PM

That sounds really bad. I'm surprised the courts haven't put a stop to that idea.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times

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