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Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

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In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#331051: Oct 3rd 2020 at 2:07:11 AM

After suffering a knee injury, Vice-President Nixon was forced to be treated at Walther Reed for two critical weeks in the 1960 election against Kennedy, which arguably played a role in portraying the latter as more physically fit to be President despite him also having his own history of back ailments.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#331052: Oct 3rd 2020 at 2:18:55 AM

I agree that it is in Biden's best interest to show civility towards Trump and not be goaded into swearing at him. We have had way too much uncivility from this president as it is.

Though of course it was perfectly understandable given the circumstances during the debate. I suspect Biden was more annoyed by Trump breaking debate protocol than anything else (save the personal attack on his sons, of course), being the professional debater that he is. Note that Biden's outbursts occur around those moments where Trump blatantly breaks debate rules.

Some people seem to have the weird idea that since Biden is a centrist, his presidency will be just as bad Trump's since nothing meaningful will change and it will just be a return to what was already a harmful status quo. In any other election those people might have a point. But considering the alternative . . .

You are right, but I think Biden does need to show that he is willing to move beyond the status quo from before Trump, that his presidency will be more than just "a return to normalcy", and will be a move forwards. And I think he shows promising signs that he will do just that. I notice he has stopped leaning on Obama so much, for one.

[up] I think that was from a time when it was more acceptable to rip on people for being physically handicapped, though. I sure hope that shit don't fly any more these days.

On climate change, I agree that that is the one issue Biden just cannot afford to be "good enough" on. Good enough is just, well, not good enough at this point. We really need some radical decisions made on climate change, and a decades long program just isn't going to cut it at this point. No, being a good start is not good enough. We needed a good start 20 years ago. It is already too late for that now.

As for people not wanting to vote because they think both sides are bad, I think that runs deeper than just Trump/Biden. It is a complete disillusionment with politics in general, somewhat understandable with how divided politics has become. These people likely wouldn't vote in any election. I think in order to get these people to vote for anyone at all, you first need to convince them that politics can be a force for good at all, that some politicians really do have their interests in mind, and will work to make their country a better place. To get them to vote for any politician, you need to get them to trust in politics in general first.

Edited by Redmess on Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:12:24 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#331053: Oct 3rd 2020 at 4:52:00 AM

Twitter has emphasized that it will remove any tweets wishing death upon Trump, is met with an overwhelming volume of replies asking why it hasn't enforced that rule when women, POC, LGBT individuals, and such get death threats.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#331054: Oct 3rd 2020 at 4:53:26 AM

"Because the President was the one making them!"

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#331055: Oct 3rd 2020 at 5:06:49 AM

Twitter is right about removing those tweets, and the critics are right about them not being consistent about that rule.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Wispy Since: Feb, 2017
#331056: Oct 3rd 2020 at 5:07:54 AM

Twitter is known for being ridiculously lenient towards right wingers, especially the politicians.

minseok42 A Self-inflicted Disaster from A Six-Tatami Room (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
A Self-inflicted Disaster
#331057: Oct 3rd 2020 at 5:12:18 AM

AOC tweeted about this, calling them out on their double standard

"Enshittification truly is how platforms die"-Cory Doctorow
Wispy Since: Feb, 2017
#331058: Oct 3rd 2020 at 5:16:22 AM

Pretty much all the big social media platforms (Twitter, Reddit,Facebook, Instagram, etc.) love playing the enlightened centrist and being ridiculously lenient towards right wingers to the point their shit just festers.

The double standard is just ridiculous.

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#331059: Oct 3rd 2020 at 5:18:02 AM

How reliable a source is Rawstory? They're apparently reporting that Trump is having trouble breathing, which could be bad news for his prognosis. Not to turn this into the Hourly Trump Report, but.

It's been fun.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#331060: Oct 3rd 2020 at 5:20:17 AM

I'm of the mind that when the POTUS has a life threatening illness that an hourly report is valid.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Oct 3rd 2020 at 5:33:28 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#331061: Oct 3rd 2020 at 5:22:37 AM

[up][up] There are several sites going with the "breathing difficulty" story, but I too am not sure about its reliability. We'll have to see what information comes out and, importantly, whether it is controlled or leaked.

I expect the White House to completely shut down information about Trump's condition, especially if it is bad, but they're so incompetent at it that it'll leak anyway.

Edited by Fighteer on Oct 3rd 2020 at 8:23:13 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#331062: Oct 3rd 2020 at 5:23:05 AM

[up][up][up][up] I think that is more an economical thing than a political one. They just don't want to upset half their market.

Which is why this needs to be something mandated by government policy, rather than leave it up to companies who have conflicting incentives.

Edited by Redmess on Oct 3rd 2020 at 2:23:59 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Wispy Since: Feb, 2017
#331063: Oct 3rd 2020 at 5:24:04 AM

If its true that's already a bad sign. Not that I feel much of anything for him though.

[up]Fair point, its annoys the shit out of me still though.

Edited by Wispy on Oct 3rd 2020 at 5:24:32 AM

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#331064: Oct 3rd 2020 at 5:26:04 AM

That sort of behaviour by social media companies is a great example of why government regulations matter. You can't just leave everything to the markets and individual companies.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#331065: Oct 3rd 2020 at 5:26:36 AM

Hell I’d estimate that based on how attached to anger, fake news and outrage social media is, right wing people make up more than half their audience base.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#331066: Oct 3rd 2020 at 5:27:59 AM

The problem here is that the government runs into serious First Amendment challenges in demanding the regulation of speech on online platforms. It's not nearly as simple as, "xx CFR xxxx: All social media companies operating in the U.S. must block and penalize any message that wishes death or harm on another person."

The sheer amount of nuance and consideration that would have to go into such a law, and the courts would almost certainly strike it down anyway...

Edited by Fighteer on Oct 3rd 2020 at 8:28:57 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#331067: Oct 3rd 2020 at 5:34:35 AM

Hell I’d estimate that based on how attached to anger, fake news and outrage social media is, right wing people make up more than half their audience base.

Well people sharing cat memes and news about the upcoming Destiny DLC make less news.

The sheer amount of nuance and consideration that would have to go into such a law, and the courts would almost certainly strike it down anyway...

I like to blame Twitter for the world's decay as much as the next guy but I actually do cut considerable slack when you are dealing with the President of the United States—not because the office deserves respect but retaliation.

Tik Tok shows Trump is willing to try to destroy anyone who offends his ego.

When Vampire: The Masquerade exposed the abuse of LGBT in Chechnya, the Russian developers were told to apologize on national TV or go to jail.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Oct 3rd 2020 at 5:37:07 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#331068: Oct 3rd 2020 at 5:53:07 AM

There's also the real legal issue of threatening a head of state. Wishing death on a president can come rather close to that.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#331069: Oct 3rd 2020 at 5:55:33 AM

Yeah the secret service tend to come by for a chat if you talk a lot about wanting the president dead.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#331070: Oct 3rd 2020 at 5:59:56 AM

It still stands out against the fact that Twitter completely ignores active death threats (in contrast to the passive ill-wishing that Trump is getting) against people who aren’t the president of the US, and especially against people who are progressive, women, minorities, or all three.

Twitter is simply in the wrong. If they’re willing to delete tweets expressing happiness at the idea of Trump’s death, they should be willing to delete death threats and death wishes against non-Trump people as well.

Edited by Galadriel on Oct 3rd 2020 at 9:13:52 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#331071: Oct 3rd 2020 at 6:01:25 AM

My point actually is the fact that a lot of them come from the President of the United States.

They actually have said they had an algorithm to remove hate speech but can't use it because of him.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Oct 3rd 2020 at 6:01:52 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#331072: Oct 3rd 2020 at 6:05:06 AM

I thought it was Republicans/Right-wingers in general, not just Trump in particular.

They couldn't use their algorithm because it would disproportionately ban Republicans.

Edited by sgamer82 on Oct 3rd 2020 at 6:06:49 AM

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#331073: Oct 3rd 2020 at 6:13:09 AM

[up][up] Well, that's another issue entirely: how do you treat speech by politicians and national leaders on the internet? The whole idea of political leaders being on social media at all is relatively new, and society as a whole is still figuring out how to deal with that and what rules should be in place.

On a very different note, I have been reading Shapiro's book about the role of Shakespeare in America lately, which discusses how Shakespeare influenced many politicians and former presidents, for good and for ill. So it raised the question: does Biden like Shakespeare? Or theatre and literature in general?

Edited by Redmess on Oct 3rd 2020 at 3:13:37 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
MichaelKatsuro Since: Apr, 2011
#331074: Oct 3rd 2020 at 6:16:33 AM

If we're talking Shakespeare, I'd say that US politicians in general give me vibes of wanting to be like Henry V but seem more like the squabbling schemers in the vicinity of Henry VI.

On another note: while I’m not what you’d call a gambler, I do check up on the odds that the online casinos give Donald Trump of winning the election.

When his tax returns got out, he went from 2,1 times the bet to 2,5 times the bet. Then, when he got COVID-19, they stopped letting you bet on anything election-related at all.

Edited by MichaelKatsuro on Oct 3rd 2020 at 3:16:47 PM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#331075: Oct 3rd 2020 at 6:18:01 AM

> They stopped letting you bet on anything election-related at all.

Spoilsports

have a listen and have a link to my discord server

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